A&H - Have you forgotten your Qu customers?

I feel like A&H sold us “Qu” as their fully supported solution for this price range and are now abandoning it to focus solely on SQ. Tons of Qu products are in their customer’s hands. Please do not stop fulfilling these customer’s wishlist items and improving the software of these existing products. I get that some of the wishlist items are constrained or not feasible due to the physical hardware of the Qu line. However, features which do not require any HW changes should never be shelved. They should stay in scope and be pursued.

If A&H doesn’t continue to develop new features for Qu products, then they are just telling their customers that all purchases are considered temporary and will not be fully supported once a new product is launched. SQ customers will get the same treatment when the next series is launched. Should we now assume our mixers will only be primary focus for a handful of years, then tossed aside by A&H? That’s not a business model which builds loyalty. A&H management - please reconsider your commitment to existing customer satisfaction by ensuring continued investment of enhancements for all existing products.

Regards,
Todd

Hi Todd,

It’s a shame that you feel this way, but I can assure you that nobody here has forgotten about Qu, and we are certainly not ‘abandoning’ the Qu range in any sense, it’s our biggest selling digital mixer and has a fantastic user base that we value greatly.
Qu is still in active development, we continue to support it and provide updates (we released firmware just recently).
You are correct in pointing out that some feature requests are not viable due to hardware or processing power, but we continue to consider those that are possible.

As an aside, SQ and Qu have many similarities, but these are different systems, with different possibilities and a different price range.

Thanks,
Keith.

Thank you, @“KeithJ A&H”. Please help A&H management keep the Qu Feature wishlist in focus, excluding any HW limited suggestions. Specifically, is A&H even attempting/considering an off-line editor solution for scenes, PC or iPad?

Hi Todd,

No, we are not working on an offline editor for Qu at this time. That’s not to say we never will, and it will definitely be considered again in future (as it has been a number of times in the past).

Thanks,

Keith.

Sounds like deja vu to me…I’ve written to AH asking for service for my T112 a couple years now and am still waiting…Despite this, I’m still interested in the dLive and GLD…good luck?

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/qu-series-offlinecomputer-scene-editor

As kqp721 has stated … we were also ilive owners and were left hanging out to dry when gld was developed, for being their flagship console at the time… they left us high & dry on a high priced mixing system.

Well, given that the A&H reps on their own online forum have still failed to post anything in the Qu Feature thread that I started, I would conclude that they do not have sufficient staff to both stay engaged on prior series while promoting a current, new series. From comments above, this is not an isolated instance.

I truly believe that A&H stands behind their products in the field, in as much as they will provide tech support of product failures, significant bug fixes, etc. until the product is deemed discontinued. After that, they will likely still provide service at a fee as long as parts are available. So, that is not my concern.

My concern was the complete disengagement and loss of any measurable attention in their own forum for the Qu series. They should designate 1 resource for prior models who is not allocated at all to managing the newest product. This separation allows for limited but measurable focus to be retained on prior product and those customers. Surely they have more than 1 software developer. Surely they have more than one customer rep. Leave one of each focused on prior model products.

Hi Todd,

You posted the same thing multiple times, and I happened to see this post first…

I also need to correct you there - we continue to support products long after we have finished manufacturing and selling them. We do NOT charge for this support.
We even continue to update things like drivers and apps for as long as possible.

I’m sorry we do not have plans for a Qu editor at this time, but being negative as well as telling us how we should be doing things is not going to change that.

Regarding support or any queries (and relating to your comments on a perceived lack of staff), this is the digital community, this is a place for users to discuss our products, this is not an official support channel. For that, we have support.allen-heath.com by the way. As far as these forums go, we mostly lurk! As do many of the developers in fact…
And it’s mainly because all of us take a keen interested in the discussions that happen around our products - as most users understand, we’re not here to respond to every post on every thread.

Please don’t be concerned though. We haven’t forgotten you!

Keith.

Thank you Keith. I got my feathers ruffled. It is a rant. I’ll own that fact. Thank you for correcting the comment about pay for support. I meant that if something breaks, I expect a fee for repairs. If there is a defect, I would expect a different resolution as I assume A&H would too.

I get your point about contacting support directly. However, why host on your own domain a forum which contains topics for new features if the forum is not being sufficiently monitored? I think 18 months is a long time for a thread on new features to go without a response from A&H on their own domain. That is what got me worked up.

Look I get it. Eventually, A&H has to move on and stay focused on latest or next big thing. Maybe this is a lesson in smooth disengagement. Maybe the forum needs to close out some of those sections on older series so that no new threads can be added by users. Then, A&H can post a final statement on each thread and then close it for comments. Basically, there comes a time when no new features will happen, so that is the time to wrap up that section.

I am truly bummed that an offline editor will never come from A&H for this mixer. Maybe A&H can look at some sort of open source code model for the apps on these older systems at some point in their life span. That would then put the option into the hands of the community.

Lastly, I did start this second thread in the SQ forum. So, yes there are multiple posts. Once that existed, I felt it appropriate to keep the two threads updated equally. If A&H had responded in the Qu forum in a timely manner, there would never have been a post in the SQ forum causing the duplication. Baring any further comments questing directed to me here, I will cease posts on this thread and only add a concluding comment on the Qu forum thread to close this topic out.

@Toddl

AH support is excellent.

But they can not do every feature somebody asks.
They have to allocate their resources to doing what is the most useful overall.

If you wan’t to complain then do it about dealers not AH.

And I do not mean the distributor they list on the website as a dealer but which in American is not a dealer.

Why reply to a 2½ year old post now?

why reply at all ever

@toddl posted this topic in several threads today

Well you could wonder why open a post about QU in the SQ forum, instead of posting in the QU forum ??

you might, but @toddl explained why he posted in multiple forums

not sure that I agree with his reason but he did have one

A little OT here, but maybe it helps A&H:

No, we are not working on an offline editor for Qu at this time. That’s not to say we never will, and it will definitely be considered again in future (as it has been a number of times in the past).

Instead of developing an offline Editor for all the consoles in the house, A&H could try to make use of the Internet Community in that point by creating an open and mostly standardized Show File Format that the Mixers can store and load (if necessary even by using the Mixpad App for that so there’s no need to implement the format itself on the FPGA).

I am relatively shure that there are enough Qu and SQ Users with software development know-how out there. So if an Open Source Editor Project could be founded this likely could get by far more dynamic than A&H could ever reach by doing all the work alone.

Just have a little look outside your “corner” into the XML World. There are already many things there that could be useful.

Starting with XSD to not only simply (and if necessary by using already available development tools) define sophisticated XML Sublanguages that can represent almost any data, but also validate and analyze any Data to conform to such a Definition with common Services, free tools and freely available libraries. That means: you don’t have to develop a check for correctnes of an Input File - there is already widespread available free Software can do that for you (even in your own App, in a Webservice or as a batch tool).

Further on, XSLT could be used to migrate show files and functional block templates between Mixer Models. So Customers can upgrade their hardware and import existing Shows on the new one. Or Bands can E-Mail their Show to the Sound Engineer without knowing the exact mixer Model and I/O Modules he has - the Sound Engineer can migrate the Show to his Hardware by using a provided XSLT Stylesheet (which contains nothing more than transformation rules for the different XML Nodes) and check what additional gear may be necessary or what features/plugins might be missing or if he needs a bigger Console - long before the Event.

Oh, and of course XSLT could also be used to generate Documentations - for Customers, for Discussion, for archiving or whatever needs a documentation about the used audio processing. Or to generate a Monitor Mixer Config Template from an FoH Configuration (and vice versa). Or check if both can be used together on one splitting Stagebox. All you nedd is the corresponding processing rule file.

DOM Libraries like xalan, libxml or JAXB (almost any software development environment has at least 2 or 3 of it available) can be used to load XML Files into Memory as Object Trees or processing Streams and to store such Data into XML Files within a handful lines of Code. So you won’t have to write a Parser for the files - that is already done!

XInclude can be used to manage modularization (like creating Libraries of Channel Templates to combine into Show Files or splitting Show Files up to several logical parts) - and there are Converters from/to JSON which can be used mostly (but not completely) equivalent to XML.

The most common ressentiment against such things is “we will not be able to support Users with Shows created by unknown Software” - but in an XML World, that is not really true. XML was made to address especially such a case by having a simple contract: what validates must be processed correctly without Crash. So any Show File either validates - then your App/Console /has/ to process it in a senseful manner (it may of course give an unwanted result because of dumb settings in it, there is no User IQ Filter :wink: - or it doesn’t validate, then the Software that created the file has to be fixed before your mixer/app can be blamend for anything.

It may look a bit strange on the first sight for a Company that depends heavy on its intellectual property to release such things. But the first Manufacturer that manages to set a widely accepted open Standard here could gain massive benefits since the whole Rest of the Market will obviously get in strategical pressure to support that Standard too - likely within a short time.

Also you might wonder about suggesting XML (which is more known as a Document Management Tool) for a more technical Software. But in structure, the Show and Configuration Data of your mixer can be seen as nothing different but a kind of hierarchically structured Document or a Tree of Data Objects. So that is perfectly the thing that XML was made for.

Ummm

“ToddL
active 2 years, 7 months ago”

Something strange going on?

@markpaman
know what you mean… strangers in my life :wink:

@eschwenk

are you really sure?
You suggest things already in place…

and btw XML is not a document management tool

Xtensible Markup Language

You suggest things already in place…

Are they? Where can I download the free Offline Scene Editor for SQ Series Mixers then? Must have missed that, sorry.

and btw XML is not a document management tool

Of course it is not. It is a universal and open method to define data structures, maybe with storage, processing and transmission as main target use cases.

But it is often mentioned mainly as a Document Management / Data transmission tool. Maybe because the root of XML was SGML which AFAIK was invented first to manage technical Documentation for Airplane production. Or because most people have heard of HTML being an XML Language (which is not completely correct, XHTML is, HTML below Version 5 is SGML).

However, using XML to store configuration data is a widespread technique in many applications including some DAW. The whole Ardour configuration for example seems to be a bunch of XML files.

Scene and Show Files of most Digital Mixing hardware seem to not use it so widespread, at least not documented. Maybe vendors fear to leak knowhow that way, maybe they are just in lack of the knowledge, have other priorities or too low engineering capacity (that topic may be not so widespread beyond Engineers of embedded Systems as it is for Application developers).

The point is: up to now, there is no complete offline editor for SQ. The SQ Mix Pad App does that only partially and is not really user-friendly for desktop Use (it was never intended to, on a tablet it is nearly perfect).

That could be a perfect field to spin off some free software. With a little luck that could generate huge developing dynamics after some time and give a better tool than a single vendor ever could make on its own.