'Bird Beater' question

[zigzagsky]

Just setting up a small TV studio using an SQ5 and a couple of D-Snakes and am trying to set up a ‘bird beater’ process which is where a mix is sent to a destination ‘pre fader’ but muted when the fader is opened. In this case this is to set up ‘lazy talkback’ to a Producer from the presenter mics.

The process is that when the presenter mics are faded down on the main mix, the Producer receives their pre-fader audio but once the mics are opened on the main mix, the feed to the Producer is muted.

I’m still learning the ins and outs of the mixer but can’t find a way to do this easily.

Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks,

Brian

[Keith]

Hi Brian,

There is no internal way of achieving this, though it would be relatively straightforward to achieve with the addition of a BomeBox ( BomeBox – Bome Software ) and Bome’s MIDI Translator Pro ( Bome MIDI Translator Pro – Bome Software ), or a connected computer running a MIDI translator.
The BomeBox firmware includes auto-connection to A&H digital mixers over the network port and can load translation files from MIDI Translator Pro, so this would be a neat stand-alone solution.
You may find that you are ok with a computer based solution however, and for testing at least, you could use Bomes MIDI translator classic.

The SQ sends and receives MIDI messages for both send levels and mutes, so you’d be looking to add some logic in the translator that says ‘when main (or other) send level is above x, mute y. when main (or other) send level is below x, unmute y’.

If you need further help with this, please contact us using support.allen-heath.com.

Hope this helps!
Keith.

[zigzagsky]

Thanks for the quick response Keith.

I’ve looked into the solutions you suggest and I agree that the BomeBox with MIDI Translator Pro looks to be the neatest for a permanent solution.

I’ll have a play with the Bome MIDI translator classic and a PC to get the hang of things and try out the idea.

Brian

[mikec]

Keep in mind I’m not a MIDI programmer but this company makes
MIDI to contact closure interfaces.
https://midisolutions.com/products.htm

Getting that programmed correctly you could use the contact closure to
control a relay opening and closing the physical output line of the prefade mix.

Kind of like broadcast mixers that had the que detent position that closed
a switch at the bottom of the fader travel.

[zigzagsky]

Thanks Mike,

I remember the microswitches at the bottom of the old quadrant faders during my early years at the BBC!

I’ll look at the relay box from Midisolutions but it does then involved making up an additional hardware box to accommodate the switching of the XLR feed to the lazy output which may be less elegant than the solution proposed by Keith.

[mikec]

I’ll look at the relay box from Midisolutions but it does then involved making up an additional hardware box to accommodate the switching of the XLR feed to the lazy output which may be less elegant than the solution proposed by Keith.

That would require a hardware DIY project and an external DPDT relay to open and close the XLR line.

I found the Midisoultions equipment when looking at an install project that would have needed some contact closure to MIDI control. The install never happened so I never got
the chance to set up and program any of their equipment.

[steffenromeiss]

Why not doubling the channel with the opposite routing and switch between them?

[zigzagsky]

Quick follow up…

BomeBox and MIDI Translator Pro software have been purchased and I’m working my way through how to configure a process to do the task…

Very powerful little units these, I’m sad I hadn’t come across them before as they are a bit of a Swiss Army Knife when it comes to MIDI and would have solved a lot of workflow issues on previous projects.

[22fuzzi]

I love them too…

Here I’ve done a Faderwing without PC: https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/faderwing-for-sq#post-98456

I love it

[zigzagsky]

Final update…

Successfully set up the BomeBox and wrote a translation file including a couple of simple rules using MIDI Translator Pro as suggested by Keith. All works really well and the client is pleased.

Basically I read the fader position of the talent Mic and if it’s above a certain value, I mute the mix to the Producer. If the talent Mic is faded out then the system un-mutes the mix to the Producer.

It was good to see that the BomeBox supported the SQ5 straight out of the box with no configuration required, connected it to the network and the SQ5 was discovered immediately.

Thanks for the help.

[ian-threlfall]

Hello!

Note - I’ve tried to include photos and a video but the forum won’t let me add them and removes my post. Contact me if you’d like to know more

Just to revisit this i’ve been able to make this work via the use of Bitfocus Companion and thought people (who possibly already use this for mixer control) may also be interested

Requirements
SQ Console
Network connection to computer (Desk and computer IP address ion same subnet)
Running copy of Bitfocus Companion (Streamdeck not required!)
Spare mix for each pre-hear output

When a specific fader is faded up to the L/R mix the send level of that fader to a corresponding mix will be muted, and unmuted when returned to the bottom of the rail.

Instructions
Connect your SQ and control computer via network (this can be directly or via a network switch)
Make sure they have IP address in the same subnet
Download and install Bitfocus Companion - Bitfocus
Add the SQ module as a connection (It will warn you it may not be compatible with the current Companion version, ignore this).
Then type in the IP address of your SQ desk and i’d recommend changing ‘Retrieve console status’ to delayed

It should then connect to your desk and show with a nice green tick!

Now we need to add 2 Triggers, one for the fader up and one for fader down

The trigger will look at the condition of the fader send to L/R position and trigger if above or below -60

If will then action “Assign Channel x to Mix X” option ‘disable’ for fader up (removing the pre-hear when the channel is in main mix and a reverse is used for the fader down so the pre-hear is returned to the chosen mix.

Fader Up
Condition
internal: Variable: Check value -
Variable CH X → LR Level (SQ:level)
Operation >
Value -G)

Action
SQ: Assign channel to mix
Input Channel X
Mix Aux X

Fader Down
Same as above with Invert on the condition ticked

Make sure to enable the whole trigger as well as the condition and actions from each trigger.

You can repeat these steps to create triggers for as many faders as you wish!

Notes
This does require a spare mix per required pre hear output. Ideally the automation of the direct out via this same solution would fix this problem, although some people do like using the direct out for multitrack recordings. You could use 1 mix for all pre hears but presuming this is being fed into a comms matrix it won’t allow for any level control of the separate presenters on the comms panels by director / PA etc.
Companion does need to be running, but can be run on a Raspberry Pi or quite easily in the background of another computer (such as a record or utility computer).

Other uses
Fader start - Start stop walk in music with fader push.
Mics Live Light - When any mic is live trigger a red light

[ian-threlfall]

Photos from above.