Console Excorcist Needed

iLive Archived iLive Discussions
1

I’ve already contacted technical support about this, but I thought I’d ask around here too. Have any of you guys seen your consoles gain a mind of their own?

This weekend the main left/right and Program DCA on our FOH console shot to +10db. Also, a few random channels on the console started randomly changing values at an extremely fast rate, this included, among others, FX, both lead vocal mics, and the aux mix feeding the TV’s distributed throughout the building. Some of the faders moved, some of them sat in place while values on the screen went crazy. The guy we had mixing tried muting things as well as grabbing faders, but the console had locked. Killing the amps was the quickest way he could end the deafening wail of feedback that all of this caused. Rebooting the console at least got us mute control (several faders were still doing their own thing and mains were pegged at +10). Luckily we had a mix off the monitor console passing through FOH that was behaving itself. Rerouted that to the mains and mixed the rest of the service off the monitor console. Three quarters of the way through the service the FOH went back to normal, and operated fine for our last service.

Of course all of this happened in the middle of the worship set during our biggest service of the weekend. Biggest production fail I’ve ever been a part of. It’s one thing when a console or a system dies in the middle of a show, that’s bad enough, but I’d never even conceived of a console locking up and pushing itself to the max…

(I checked the logs, there was nobody goofing around on a remote connection, and part of our troubleshooting was unplugging it from the rest of the network.)

T112/Dual:iDR32-iDR48/Dante

MacBook Pro/iDR16/Dante

T112/iDR48/Dante

T112/iDR32

Mac Pro/Dante (Backing Tracks)

Mac Mini/Dante (Multitracking)

2 iPads 3s w/ MixPad

2

With my previous wi-fi router I had several random jumps. Once it maxed out the gated rvb on the kick channel and it sounded like an effect from Lords of the Ring with each kick punch until I figured it out.

Another time it put vocal group fader to minus infinity at the very beginning of the show.

I have never had this kind of random mess since I changed my wi-fi router to a dual band and I’m always staying on 5Ghz.

I don’t have a surface. ipad3 & idr32 with Motioncomputing LE1700.

Did you have any wi-fi connections at the moment of this random act?

IDR32

Motion Computing LE1700

idontPad1&3

M-Waves.

3

Interesting. All of our consoles are on a managed control network with a few Cisco wireless access points (not routers). The only wireless connection to a console at the time would have been an Editor session connected to the iDR16 for monitors. We had a wired Editor session connected to the iDR16 as well. As far as I’m aware we didn’t have any issues with the iDR16/Editors. We actually relied on the wired connection to the iDR16 to mix the rest of the service. I did find just find out that one of the wireless access points died at some point during the morning, but according to IT, their logs say it did not start spraying data or anything.

While it was freaking out we disconnected the FOH console from the rest of the control network leaving direct patches from the surface, to the iDR32, to the iDR48. Faders continued to move for several minutes after this. It was back on the network when it went back to normal.

Any idea what your router was doing that caused the issue?

T112/Dual:iDR32-iDR48/Dante

MacBook Pro/iDR16/Dante

T112/iDR48/Dante

T112/iDR32

Mac Pro/Dante (Backing Tracks)

Mac Mini/Dante (Multitracking)

2 iPads 3s w/ MixPad

4

Wow these posts are the one that scare me… I hope A&H helps you identify the cause.

T112, iDR48, M-DANTE, PL10, MixPad, Editor

MacBook Pro, Mac Mini

Lion/Logic Pro

All latest versions/firmware

5

We too have had recent problems with the T112 going crazy, all faders go to full, console becomes uncontrollable. This console has become un-useable. A&H better get this fixed ASAP!

Mark

6

Hi guys

Just out of interest are you using dedicated ethernet cabling for your ACE transport or are you using structured wiring in building? I don’t use ACE a lot but I have had troubles with Ethersound & Dante which both ended up being cable related.

Now I’d only ever use our own cabling for a touring show and never ever use an installed cable network put in a by a least cost installer using the cheapest cable he could find. Hope its a simple fix…

.

Just remember kids no matter how good your mixing is you can’t polish a turd…

7

Hi Crownpower

Have you contacted A&H technical support? This sounds like it could be a hardware fault with your mixer.

https://allen-heath.helpserve.com/

Regards

Sam A&H

8

Sam, still be nice to know if there is a cause or warning sign (if possible). This is a very scary issue. faders going full can be very bad (as everyone is aware)…

T112, iDR48, M-DANTE, PL10, MixPad, Editor

MacBook Pro, Mac Mini

Lion/Logic Pro

All latest versions/firmware

9

I once had an issue with the gain rotary - somebody has thrown something on it, i had a look at it - was looking and working normal and i forget about it, cause it was working the normal way for a couple of weeks, but then it went crazy - changing value untouched.

Changing the board where the rotary was helped here.

So what i have meant - maybe some hardware issue - maybe an liquid issue or something is brocken inside?

10

Hi Claroque

quote:
Sam, still be nice to know if there is a cause or warning sign (if possible). This is a very scary issue. faders going full can be very bad (as everyone is aware)....

We have had very few reports of any problems regarding random moving faders. The cause is most likely to be a result of a hardware fault with 1 of the faders, fader board PSU.

Contacting your local dealer or A&H technical support is be the best way to help resolve any issue as quickly as possible.

Regards

Sam A&H

11

Sam, I have not experienced this issue myself, just always scary reading about this type issue.

So if this issue lives in the surface, a disconnect of ACE cable should stop it?

T112, iDR48, M-DANTE, PL10, MixPad, Editor

MacBook Pro, Mac Mini

Lion/Logic Pro

All latest versions/firmware

12

@Stealth,

We are currently working with tech support on this issue. The bigger issue is we purchased this console in 09, we are on the second control service and have replaced the motor card about 2 years ago. On top of the issue of 5)3 “crazy faders” we have buttons that dont work. We are a small sound company and use the console on the average of about 3 times a month, my point is that we really shouldn’t be having this many problems with this thing. Now I have been told that the factory would like the console back to troubleshoot, so that leaves me without it for probably at least 3 weeks, plus I have to pay to ship it back. A&H needs to get the quality up for me to feel confident selling these things.

Mark

13
quote:
Originally posted by crownpower

@Stealth,

We are currently working with tech support on this issue. The bigger issue is we purchased this console in 09, we are on the second control service and have replaced the motor card about 2 years ago. On top of the issue of 5)3 “crazy faders” we have buttons that dont work. We are a small sound company and use the console on the average of about 3 times a month, my point is that we really shouldn’t be having this many problems with this thing. Now I have been told that the factory would like the console back to troubleshoot, so that leaves me without it for probably at least 3 weeks, plus I have to pay to ship it back. A&H needs to get the quality up for me to feel confident selling these things.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Sorry hear about your problems; FWIW our run with iLives over the last 3 or 4 four years has been faultless, except for one minor software issue related to screen computer. The very first iLive’s off the production line had 1G screen computers which were soon upgraded to a 1G5. They would not run the later versions of the software without crashing, and I had to be the person to discover it at an audio industry awards night we were doing production for. But, I have to say the guys at the factory were fantastic, could not have asked for better service …

Peter

14

I spent the whole last week troubleshooting but was unable to reproduce the problem. The ACE Link is all over installed wiring. We did find that pins 4 and 5 had been swapped in a punch bay. We fixed that. All interconnecting cable is cat 5e or 6 and under 325 feet.

Of course, after a week of unsuccessfully trying to cause the problem, as soon as rehearsal starts, prior to services on Saturday, the console goes nuts again. At least this time the mains remained unaffected. I was actually the one mixing this time when it happened. I have to tell you it was not a pleasant experience. We disconnected it from the rest of the control network, gave it a few minutes, and it behaved itself the rest of the weekend. I’m not a network guru, but is it possible for a mixer to receive stray control commands? There was nothing connected directly to this console.

Mark, the possessed channels seem to be independent of specific hardware faders. The possessed channels don’t have to be on a physical fader. You can watch them move in mixrack setup. We purchased the hardware in '09 and haven’t had any problems with it until now. The only hardware change recently was a switch to dual mixrack mode about a month ago.

Sam, I contacted American Music and Sound by phone, should I be going through https://allen-heath.helpserve.com/ instead?

T112/Dual:iDR32-iDR48/Dante

MacBook Pro/iDR16/Dante

T112/iDR48/Dante

T112/iDR32

Mac Pro/Dante (Backing Tracks)

Mac Mini/Dante (Multitracking)

2 iPads 3s w/ MixPad

15
quote:
Originally posted by msmelser

I spent the whole last week troubleshooting but was unable to reproduce the problem. The ACE Link is all over installed wiring. We did find that pins 4 and 5 had been swapped in a punch bay. We fixed that. All interconnecting cable is cat 5e or 6 and under 325 feet.

Of course, after a week of unsuccessfully trying to cause the problem, as soon as rehearsal starts, prior to services on Saturday, the console goes nuts again. At least this time the mains remained unaffected. I was actually the one mixing this time when it happened. I have to tell you it was not a pleasant experience. We disconnected it from the rest of the control network, gave it a few minutes, and it behaved itself the rest of the weekend. I’m not a network guru, but is it possible for a mixer to receive stray control commands? There was nothing connected directly to this console.

Mark, the possessed channels seem to be independent of specific hardware faders. The possessed channels don’t have to be on a physical fader. You can watch them move in mixrack setup. We purchased the hardware in '09 and haven’t had any problems with it until now. The only hardware change recently was a switch to dual mixrack mode about a month ago.

Sam, I contacted American Music and Sound by phone, should I be going through https://allen-heath.helpserve.com/ instead?

T112/Dual:iDR32-iDR48/Dante

MacBook Pro/iDR16/Dante

T112/iDR48/Dante

T112/iDR32

Mac Pro/Dante (Backing Tracks)

Mac Mini/Dante (Multitracking)

2 iPads 3s w/ MixPad

I would not try to use an iLive on a network. AH are quite specific about the cable requirements.

https://www.allen-heath.com/UK/CategoryDocuments/Understanding%20Ace%20-%20rev%2029SEP11.pdf

"Cables up to 120m (400ft) in length can be used, but see our recommended & tested cables in the FAQ, and as published on our website.

Allen & Heath cannot guarantee the performance & reliability of the iLive ‘ACE’ system using Cat5 cables which we have not tested or recommended.

Premium touring-grade flexible cables are preferable for live PA work . This includes the short ’Network’ Bridge’ jumper cable if used

with M-ACE option. Allen & Heath can supply an 80m Neutrik ‘Etherflex’ cable on a drum (AH7000).

Once the ACE link is connected and the system is powered up, then LEDs near the ACE ports will show Link Active and Error status. Providing

the network addresses of the system (MixRack, Surface, & Touch-screen computer) are compatible, then the touch-screen screen will show

additional system information. Once the Net Bridge is established over the ACE link then there will be a green tick shown on the surface link

area of the touch-screen status window. A red cross X indicates bridge connection errors. A ‘traffic light’ system of coloured dots is provided"

Peter

16

The problem only occurs during the shows? Maybe something changes in your house at showtime that affects the networks…

Some RF or power related things…

SRV-AVB

R-72, iDR-16, xDR-16, Dante

17

The ACE link between surface and mixrack and from mixrack to mixrack is a hard patch. There are no switches or other network devices in line (Although A&H documentation does say that switches in line are acceptable for greater distances). We use these consoles in a permanently installed environment. We can’t wire it up like a touring rig. We have had them all networked with the rest of our production equipment since we got them 3 years ago.

T112/Dual:iDR32-iDR48/Dante

MacBook Pro/iDR16/Dante

T112/iDR48/Dante

T112/iDR32

Mac Pro/Dante (Backing Tracks)

Mac Mini/Dante (Multitracking)

2 iPads 3s w/ MixPad

18

Hi PeterM

quote:
Sam, I contacted American Music and Sound by phone, should I be going through https://allen-heath.helpserve.com/ instead?

Your first port of call should be America Music And Sound as they are the US distributor for A&H and deal with all technical support in the US. If the problem is unable to be resolved by AM&S then they will be in direct contact with A&H UK to help resolve the issue asap.

Regards

Sam A&H

19
quote:
Originally posted by msmelser

The ACE link between surface and mixrack and from mixrack to mixrack is a hard patch. There are no switches or other network devices in line (Although A&H documentation does say that switches in line are acceptable for greater distances). We use these consoles in a permanently installed environment. We can’t wire it up like a touring rig. We have had them all networked with the rest of our production equipment since we got them 3 years ago.

T112/Dual:iDR32-iDR48/Dante

MacBook Pro/iDR16/Dante

T112/iDR48/Dante

T112/iDR32

Mac Pro/Dante (Backing Tracks)

Mac Mini/Dante (Multitracking)

2 iPads 3s w/ MixPad

The Cat 5 cable is “mission critical”, I would make sure I used a cable that complies with AH’s specification. I would not put anything else other than the iLive on that network cable. (Even if it worked OK)

FWIW – I have had an issue where I left about 5m of unterminated Cat 5 plugged in to the rack. There was enough noise introduced into the system to stop things working properly.

Peter

PS - I would try hooking it up like a “touring rig” (as a test), and see if you have a problem.

20

Did you ever resolve this?