Mix Bus assignable to LR Bus

higher sampling rates have audible influence in the hearing area as well…

If SQ is better or worse in some of that points because of using 96 kHz, that’s good, but it makes no difference if another Console would do that with better Software, other Hardware or whatever else may help. In both Cases the result is mainly the same.

sometimes the results differ just because of the sampling rate…
some downsides of the 44,1/48kHz world are not “fixable” with additional or different software (and mostly this software uses upsampled signals to avoid the problems)

96kHz processes samples twice as fast as 48kHz consoles. So generally speaking, latency times will be quicker (shorter) with a faster console.

Also, while I am a little fuzzy on the specifics myself, watching some of the greats in the industry like Robert Scovill, it is clear that the higher sample rate consoles are better able to handle the higher frequencies. It has something to do with the math, but the higher rate consoles are better able to produce sounds 15kHz and above than lower sample rate consoles.

96kHz processes samples twice as fast as 48kHz consoles. So generally speaking, latency times will be quicker (shorter) with a faster console.

Also, while I am a little fuzzy on the specifics myself, watching some of the greats in the industry like Robert Scovill, it is clear that the higher sample rate consoles are better able to handle the higher frequencies. It has something to do with the math, but the higher rate consoles are better able to produce sounds 15kHz and above than lower sample rate consoles.

Yes the faster the sampling rate the latency is shorter/faster.

All digital processing has a fairly steep low pass " Nyquist Filter" at half the sampling frequency, with lower sampling frequencies and depending on the design of the filter artifacts/side effects of the filter could creep into the audio spectrum.

You do not understand enough about digital and what happens with processing.

I understand that things very well. But for many users (and me including), they don’t really matter. It is simply fact that not
everyone that buys a SQ does that because of the (at least postulated) very low latency or finbe high frequency responses. Some of them
even use 48 kHz AR/AB Stageboxes and are perfectly happy with that. Some even have 16 kHz Low Pass filters or Shelves on their Master Bus.
They simply care about about what they want to produce, not about sampling Frequencies.

Most users compare Mixers due to Criteria that matters for them. That even may not be any sound parameter
but the housing color, the weight, the preference of their dealer or their favourite brand. If that matters for them,
it is what they should care about and it is what they should compare.

But also the technical argument is way less clear than you insist.

There are a lot of experienced and professional Engineers out there that clearly say 96 kHz does not make anything better most of the time
because there is simply no signal source and no signal target that can make use of the additional Data and the
noise floor off the algorithms is way low enough for most purposes anyway. And they have points. Just try to name 5 common
Samplers that deliver more than 48 kHz or 5 common stage Microphones that can be used over 20 kHz - you will see that is
not easy. Even some professional Amps and speaker Management systems have a steep 22 kHz Low Pass on their inputs.

If you detect a special 96 kHz Console sounds better than a special 48 kHz one, that might or might not be due to the
sampling frequency. That is, because it is practically nearly impossible to make such a comparison without psychological Biases
and because there are many other things influencing what you hear - Many “differences” reported out there are for sure due to
some different calibrations of used D/A-Converter (even in different Modes for 48 and 96 kHz that may be different), the following
analogue Amp stages and of course the Loudspeakers/Headphones (that are always the by far weakest part of the Chain when it comes to exact
reproduction).

Only one thing is absolutely clear: 96 kHz means to process twice the data volume of 48 kHz. That may reduce number of
available Channels (like it does even on SQ Drive Multitrack Recording), it may make the system to respond less fast,
eat DSP power, consume disk space and so on. That might make the Console more expensive (it not necessarily has to,
that is mainly a question of FPGA Market price structures and politics at the end of the day).

A&H says, 96 kHz help reducing latency. That can matter in some situations, it cannot in some other. If you filter
20 kHz, the latency Argument can be correct. If you filter 100 hz, it cannot because your period is 100 ms and there is
absolutely no way to extrapolate periods longer than 4 times of the available Data that makes sense in any form.

You say, 96 kHz even reduces processing noise. That may be but there are rare cases that noise does really matter. Most of the
time, you have 100 and more times higher noise levels from your preamps, microphones and even ambience. And even processing noise may
be reduced as well by dedicated oversampling instead of generally higher sampling rates for many use cases.

And that statement also was mentioned in the forum earlier: There were tons of really good Audio material produced with
less than 96 kHz over decades, many of it absolutely rocking the planet. If any result doesn’t, that nearly sure is not
due to the sampling frequency of the mixer.

sometimes the results differ just because of the sampling rate…

That may be (i think much less often than most 96 kHz users postulate), but the point is, that there simply do need not care about /why/ it differs for the User.

Thus, it is completely possible, perfectly senseful and legal to compare 96 kHz with 48 kHz Systems. There is absolutely no argument to not do that.

@Dilettant

If you understand it so well then you should realize that some other folks want and need the higher rates so your OP is equivalent to saying that you should do it my way no matter what others want.

Your reply uses logical fallacies. Just because some people or their use case does not need 96 does not mean we should all be stuck with 48. Why not 44.1 ? That would be better for studio users as 48 is more for broadcast and makes it impossible to get the best CDs.

You also do not understand it nearly as well as you claim if you cannot see how the extra bits improves the final result.
It has nothing to do with how a console sounds, it has to do with processing the data to get to the final end result.
Live it makes no difference at all, but if you produce CDs it can make a big difference depending on your work flow and final product goal.

96 has nothing to do with noise. Bit depth controls noise not sample rate.
Sample rate has to do with the final mix when you end up down rezzing to 44.1.
And if you start with 48 many people will uprez to 96,192,384 first so the downrez to 44.1 is better.
The problem is with the ratios being incompatible with 48 to 44.1 to do a simple correct change in the rez.

Yes you can produce good results with lower rates. Some people want better results.
So when you want to achieve the best then you use higher rates, and better equipment, within your budget constraints.

And we have not even discussed the effect of bit jitter and error bounds in the sampling originally.
Which is improved with higher sample rates.

Overall AH has to make a device that serves the market not one particular user.
And they have made good overall choices even if you don’t like one of them.

The market place is competitive and there is a WIDE range of choices.
If you dont like the SQ and its features you are free to try to find something else you like better.
But when you look, you will find other things that the alternatives do not do that you would want done differently.
Else why didnt you buy the other device initially?

Just because some people or their use case does not need 96 does not mean we should all be stuck with 48.

And where did i write to do so? Right: nohwere.

I just wrote there is no reason to stop comparing 96 and 48 kHz consoles. There are many reasons to do so. Not for everyone may be, but for many users. And so we won’t stop that.

@Dilettant

whatever dood.
you implied it very forcefully even if you did not say it explicitly.

I merely pointed out why 96 is better for many people and how AH has done a good job of matching the features and specs on their various devices. If AH doesnt float your boat go look at midas or some other manufacturer.

compare all you want.
perfection is not possible, certainly not for everybody with one device.

@junior

Just created an account for this exact problem. (and sorry for replying to an old thread)

You are totally right. I use a Behringer x32 for my church, and having the ability to route post-fader aux busses back into the main LR (to then be sent to a matrix for mains/fills/subs) is AMAZING. It is like using a subgroup, but better. This has been especially useful for double dipping in FX returns. I can use the same reverb effect but have a different return value for the room / livestream. I wish I could do the same thing on the SQ-5.

However, I have gotten similar results by routing all the channel faders to a post-fader aux bus- then the buses to a matrix (skipping the main LR entirely). I then used a DCA to control all 3 matrices like a master volume. I hope this helps! :slight_smile:

  • Erik

@Dilettant

The name of the game with higher sample rates is being able to add nice harmonics, saturation, and processing to a signal without adding aliasing withing the audible human hearing range. See this video for awesome visual detail.

“In this video tutorial, Dan Worrall explains when and why you should use higher samplerates for your recordings and mixing sessions, and more importantly… when you should NOT. Also, Dan goes in depth about oversampling vs. higher sample rates.”