How are you guys gain staging in general (which method seems to work the best)
I have a T.C. Electronics D-two running into ST2 In. I can’t get the levels to go much past the halfway point on the unit itself. With PFL engaged for gain staging, the levels on the QU-16 run at about -6. Any ideas on how to get the levels up?
I am asking because there is some hiss that I believe can be lowered based on my experience with other mixers. I also run a Lexicon PCM 90 and had no problems with gain staging on it. The D-Two on the other hand is not cooperating. I had the unit checked out and it is ok.
Are you going into it unbalanced? If so you’re losing a little bit there. Probably just have to hit it harder assuming your upstream levels and preamps are set correctly.
Thanks everyone for their responses thus far. Here is what I did and things are a little better, but I am not sure if this is the “correct” way of doing things (I am fairly new to digital boards). Instead of leaving the D-Two at 100% mix, I set the fader for mix 7/8 at zero and lowered the mix until I got the amount of reverb I wanted.
Is this right. There reason I ask is because on boards with dedicated aux sends, I would always leave the reverb/delay mix levels at 100%. Is the QU different? Please forgive my ignorance.
No different if you are using it in a send/receive method like you would on any console. Only time you would use it at less than 100% mix is when you are inserting it on a channel which is obviously pretty impossible on a QU.
Thanks, I did some tweaking and think I may have figured it out. Here is how I have the unit set up:
Delay Unit L/R Balanced out puts to ST2 Ins
Delay Unit L/R Balanced Inputs to 7/8 Mixed Outputs
7/8 Mix Master set to 0
^^^ Is this right?
Initially had the ST2 fader set to 0. I think this is where I had it wrong. I turned the delay unit mix back to 100% and then lowered the ST2 fader down to about -40. The gains are now healthy on the delay unit as well as on the QU-16 hitting around +6 at peak.
Does this seem about right. Again I apologized for my ignorance. I am feeling a bit like an idiot.
Cool, I just didn’t realize that the ST faders were for mixing in the levels. Good to know!
Am I married to the my outboard effects? Absolutely!!! The QU-16 effects aren’t bad, I just like the TC Electronics D-Two and the Lexicon PCM 90 better. They have a certain analog type warmth about them that works magic on vocals and acoustic guitar. If A&H ever incorporates 3rd party plugins into the QU series I would probably use the Lexicon PCM native or the Relabs XL480 for reverbs and then the SoundToys EchoBoy for delay. Those plugins replaced the two hardware units mentioned above in My DAW for recording, which is why I now use them for live gigs.
I use Ultimate Ears Reference IEMs and love to hear the lush effect of my units. If I were using regular monitors it probably wouldn’t matter as much (it would probably still matter though, just not as much). I am pretty anal about what I am hearing when I play even though the audience may not.
I use outboard delay and reverb as well. There is a definite analog warmth to them as you say Alrod. I cannot go without them either. The Qu effects need refinement in my opinion. That could be the next single best improvement they can make for the next update.
The Stereo 2tap delay needs a “Right Offset” otherwise there is no stereo imaging. You can tap in the delay tempo if you want but then have to manually offset the ms of one side to produce the stereo image… Not ideal.
The reverbs are too bright with metallic flutter and that is even after I roll off the high end.
I think the Qu effects are ok for a lot of music but not Big 80’s music. I mix for a lot of 80-90’s bands and they prefer the effects to sound close to their albums as possible. So Big snare verb and vocal delay/reverb is called for. So far - I can only achieve that with outboard effects…
Trust me - I would love to downsize but simply cannot do it until the board effects have improvement.
Alrod - I would leave the MIX knob at 100% on the actual effect unit. Once you start lowering that - you will create a alienish flange type of sound. Keep the knob at 100% and control the amount of effect on your board faders.
The Qu offers you the ability to patch in the reverb/delay of your choice. I think this is fine and lets you choose EXACTLY what you want.
Expecting ANY manufacturer to include your personal requirements in such a compact, fuctional, affordable unit is impractical. The increased cost makes it a totally different deal.
Using a Mix send and a line return is absolutely fine. If you desire more, upgrade to a more expensive console from A&H or any of the other fine makers and quit b****ing about not getting sprinkles on your icing.
BTW…
I have been able to edit the Qu 'verbs to come close to my M-2000 presets. If you spend the time it takes to know what the adjustable parameters do you can make significant “improvement” in the Qu presets and store them.
Thanks. I did wind up sitting the mix knob back to 100%. What I was doing wrong was I used the ‘Mix 7-8 master’ as the blend fader rather than the ‘ST2’ fader. Once I set the ‘Mix 7-8 master’ to 0, my levels went up. My gain structure is where it needs to be now.
I agree with Dick though. Some changes in the parameters on various pages really help the internal FX. Especially diffusion.
I have and still do own some very expensive fx outboard units from my studio days. While I still remember them as wonderful I think I can make the internals plenty good enough. But, to each his own. One of the big pluses of digital consoles is the convenience of onboard fx. If they were just awful that would be a different story but I don’t think they are.
It’s all opinion. I always altered factory settings in Lexicons and others. I never found a preset in the 480L I didn’t change some. I owned a few real plates so I knew how they needed to sound. Again, line up 10 people and you’ll get that many different settings.
@ Dick Rees,
Hi Rick glad to see you haven’t lost your charm (lol). A couple of things in reply to your comment. A&H does listen to its customers. I think their updates prove that. They did not for example have to include the new Automatic Microphone Mixer (AMM). Hardware versions of AAM’s are not exactly cheap. A&H added this at no additional cost to us. I can’t help but think this was at least in part due to requests made from current users. So you see, it is not unreasonable to think A&H would listen to us about effects updates. That being said, I would be willing to pay for effects updates/add-ons that were on par with say Lexicon PCM Native Reverb or Relabs XL480 plugins. At any rate, it is ideas (which is what I guess you are referring to as “b****ing”), that help drive improvements. A&H seem to be willing to step up to the plate in that regard.
Also, you need to give users more credit. I have been running a DAW based studio for over 15 years. I know a thing or two about editing plugins. I rarely if ever use presets. I have spent a quite a bit of time editing QU’s built-in reverbs. They cannot be edited to match my Lexicon PCM 90. Totally different algorithms are at play. I used to own a TC2000 years ago, and I question your ability to get the QU reverbs close that unit. As with the PCM 90 comparison, the QU reverb tails need improvement as do the depth and width parameters. Perhaps our definition of “close” differs. I would love for you to post your reverb settings so that I can take a listen for myself.
Finally, don’t confuse my thoughts and opinions with “complaining”. This is an open forum for exchanging ideas. I will always use it as such regardless of negative criticism. This is how people grow in knowledge. Why would anyone want to suppress that?
For the record, I am not saying that the QU onboard effects are horrible. They are usable. If they were the only effects I was ever exposed to, I would probably be ok with them. My ears have however been exposed to “better”, and so I have that certain level of expectation. I used to be anti-plugin, but there has been a lot of improvement in that area. In fact, the reason I use my Lexicon PCM 90 with my QU-16 is because I no longer need it as part of my DAW. I replaced it on my DAW with plugins.
Based on how relatively inexpensive plugins are today, I don’t subscribe to the notion that it is impossible to get that level of quality in the price range of the QU series.
In regard to your comment “I’d be interested to steal^H see some of the presets you guys have come up with ?”
I am going to have to call BS on this. To the folks saying that the QU onboard effects can be edited to get “close” to high-end outboard gear I say put up or shut up. There is a section on this forum to post presets, so let’s see them please.
