remote control of mix78 out

Qu Qu General Discussions
1

What is the best way to let the video team control mix78 out themselves
while not letting them mess with anything that would affect in house ( and hopefully not other mixes)?

The Ipad seems to do to much unless it can be set to limit access.
I do not see a way in the Qu to set who can control externally.
Is there a smartphone ap or does AH have another device with less capability than the IPad controller?
Is it feasible that we could write our own ap to do that?

We are tired of making every change they ask for in the mix and later they still blame us for bad sound.
And yes, some of this may be political not technical hence the desire to force them to control the mix without messing with things we need left alone.

And If not would an SQ be able to do what we need?

2

Have you tried the Qu-Control app? Can be set up to only control inputs to a single mix.

3

Qu-You would be a solution as well

https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-you/

and Qu-Control

https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-control/

4

@SteffenR

Thank you.
Will add that to our list of options for management to consider.

5

I would use and have used the Qu You app for live stream mixes.

Easy to set up and the user can not get into any other functions of
the.
The four thumb wheels can be set up as subgroups.

Not much to consider to put it to use, anyone with an iPhone, iPad
or an Android device can download the lap.
Download and you can get an idea about it running in the demo mode.

6

@MikeC

Thank you.

I will recommend they consider getting the video people to use that app.
All they really need is faders and maybe also mute/unmute on their channels.
If they want EQ or other fx they can do that in OBS.

I was only on the board one time, which was the first evening they also livestreamed
and the guy on video kept making requests which I could do but it would have been better if he could do them himself.
EG when he wanted faders tweaked I had to iterate until he said the level was right.
If he did it then it would have been easier and faster.

He also wanted a couple of channels muted. When I monitored I had to agree they were causing problems.
EG I heard the audience mike and people talking, over the prelude with the music.
Not sure why the MD added an audience mike. Possibly he wanted it for improving the sound when everyone was singing.
But it detracts at other times.

7

With Qu You you can not mute channels, only turn the mix levels up and down…what there
asking you to do now.

You can adjust the mix’s overall EQ and compression with QU You.
If they are truly going to actively mix the live stream mix you may want
to set your mix 7 8 to be pre fade.

Make sure the room mic channel IS NOT routed into the main PA L R mix.
A little bit of room mic in a live stream mix can be good.

8

@MikeC

Pretty sure Mix78 was prefade.
No problem if all they change is their mix EQ and compression, but OBS can do it too. They would probably choose the Qu to do it.
Pretty sure I can mute a channel to keep it from going into livestream.
At least I think I did that and they said it was then okay. But I may have muted it for everything.
Not sure why the MD added the room mike. But seems like it was for the main LR out as they record on CD from that.
But should not be my problem. Unless they decide to keep streaming Sun evening. They said they will never stream Weds eve.
I thought it was just a test for them to get their stuff set up better. But maybe they plan to do it. Will find out tomorrow nite.

9

Pretty sure Mix78 was prefade.

  • That’s where your would want it for remote mix mixing.
    Maybe should not have been that way prior to going to remote mixing.

Pretty sure I can mute a channel to keep it from going into livestream.
At least I think I did that and they said it was then okay. But I may have muted it for everything.

  • Depends where you have the mix pick off point set at

Not sure why the MD added the room mike. But seems like it was for the main LR out as they record on CD from that.

  • IN NO WAY should the room mic be fed into the main PA L R mix…ever, the last thing
    you want is more room sound fed into the PA system.
    Set up a separate mix or group just for the CD recording or use the same mix for the
    CD as you use for the live stream

And If not would an SQ be able to do what we need?

  • That is the last thing you need in your system, you have all the hardware
    as far as the mixer goes that you need. We still have no idea after all this time what the rest of your system parts and pieces are.
10

@MikeC

Well I do not know all of the system but what I see is , in the balcony:

Qu32 in the center. PC to the left to play ppt and videos.
mix78 feeds the video system further to the left.
Video has a PC with OBS and a presonus interface. A vixia camera provides the images.

To the right we have a rack with a CD recorder.
Under it is a CD player.
Under that is an old unused cassette system.
Under those are the latest Shure RF mike receivers. The mikes with transmitters are onstage.

to the right of that stack is another rack with several old ‘boxes’ that have EQ on them and the power amp.
I believe those are left over from the AH GL2400-40 as well as an earlier system before that.
Also a power controller to sequence turning things on and off. I think it is the top item.
There might be one more item in that stack, but I would have to look to be sure, but not recalling it now.

connecting to the stage is a couple of snakes coming out a wall going to the Qu, and also to the RF receivers in balcony.
The Qu has a cable to the power amp, so there may be a third snake or that goes with one of the others to the speakers.
The speaker cables somehow come down to the speakers from above.

There are rumors of stuff under the stage which might include a woofer but those are speculation as of now.
For sure they wired the stage inputs from a large crawl space under the stage.

The stage has inputs on the front as well as by the piano. DI boxes are used when needed.
On stage are two wedgies up front for the pastor to hear himself, and to some extent the choir too.
Across the stage back a ways are small monitors for pianist, director, and organist.
There are two more wedgies behind the ‘fence’ in the middle that the choir uses to hear the pastor and themselves.

The piano has two SM57s, The MD has a SM58, and there are two Shure pencil like mikes for the choir on stands at the fence;
all on cables.
Hanging from the ceiling are 4 more very small mikes of unknown model for the choir and again wired.
The choir mikes all have 48v phantom power.
Finally there are 4 handheld SM58ish RF mikes with transmitters that are used for singers, or sometimes audience questions, or similar use.

If you need specific models I can look those up. I have some in my notes filed away, others I cant get to or did not record yet.
So for some I would have to look at the device and write it down, if I could reach them to see.
Some of the boxes with EQ like controls did not have any identifying info that I recall when I did try to check those earlier.
But I do not think they are used at all.

We also have One set of 3 mono speakers flying in front of the stage angled down wiith larger one to center and two smaller aimed at the sides.

The room is the pretty traditional older style protestant church with the center a big box, stage in the front, and balcony at the end.

One thing I noticed was that a touring group had sudden feedback problems when a tall person adjusted their mike stand up higher at the center where the pastor usually stands. Just the mike location, he was not talking yet. Everything else with their show was excellent. I believe there is a standing wave at that location from whatever reflections the room causes. They used an M32 and all the related cables computers mikes speakers etc which they provided and set up earlier in the day.

If you need specifics on other gear I will look for it and write it down to add here later. Let me know what you need to have.

11

A few pictures close up and wide of the equipment and installation would save thousands of words and questions either posted here or links to the pictures.

You mentioned that the pastor has his mic back into the stage monitors so they can hear, generally that’s not such a great idea if wearing a headset and the worst idea ever if they are using a lapel.

If the center mic is right under or under and slightly behind a center cluster of speakers you are going to get some low mid build up that needs to notched out at some point.

12

@MikeC

Good idea!
I know I can take pix.
Hopefully I can figure out how to get them uploaded here too, or find a way to post them with links.

The front stage monitors are to the sides and about 3’ or so in front of him but about 6’ out to the sides’
He has a lapel mike and while usually at the pulpit at other times he might move , and at the end he has a short bit on the floor too.
We got him a special directional mike to use with the transmitter which helps a lot than the default omni it came with.

They have notched out so much of his mike you might as well just lower the fader 6-8 dB instead.

The night the touring group had the feedback we were not using the hanging speakers. They had their own big ones up front on the sides and a bit to the front of the stage. Perhaps the hanging speakers make that standing wave worse. It got a bit better when we added acoustic panels to lower the echo from the back. Someone complained about slap echo but I dont hear that when I sit in the side with the others as I watch events from there. But some more acoustic treatment might help. The dealer was to come and run special tests with computer measurements to help decide if any other fixes would be reasonable, but the MD is in the hospital now so that is delayed more and probably not until the A1 gets back from travel for work.

13
They have notched out so much of his mike you might as well just lower the fader 6-8 dB instead.

That comment right there screams “over EQ”. too much at the wrong frequencies, too wide
of cuts and too many.

My guess is every EQ in the system has been butchered and hacked to death by the sound
team and the dealer you keep having back in and yet have the same problem after they leave.

We’ll be looking for the pictures.

14

@MikeC

You are preaching to the choir.

I have told them they need to REdo everything from the beginning. And set ALL the faders and parametric EQ at 0 before they start adjusting things with preamp trim and Ring the room first with graphic EQ yada yada.

But either the dealer is playing games or they only ask them to do specific things and omit the rest that are needed.
Their techs seemed competent and experienced but may not be doing anything ‘extra’ if they dont have to. Could be some of both.

They had planned this final board reset after final room tweak with the magic testing using mikes around the auditorium and popping balloons and measuring responses on a computer then analyse with some sort of AI program. But the MD is in the hospital and the A1 is going to have to travel for work again. So it got delayed some more.

I had mentioned way in the past that we need to reset all the EQ since we got new mikes and also added acoustic treatments. And they had agreed but just never set a firm date to do things.

But this is a volounteer organization and until there is a big problem or crisis they tend not to want to take time away from their jobs and families to do it.

15
I have told them they need to REdo everything from the beginning. And set ALL the faders and parametric EQ at 0 before they start adjusting things with preamp trim and Ring the room first with graphic EQ yada yada

Use the parametric EQ on the mains!!!

From everything you have said over the year about the dealer techs and the ongoing issues
I going to say they are clueless and that goes back to day one of the install, are they charging the church for each visit at this point.

16

@MikeC

The dealer changed the LR from parametric to graphic when they last Rang the room out.
They were to come back later to do the special measurements then reset everything from ground zero to get it all right.

Some of the problem may be our guys not asking them to do all the right things that are needed, just ‘enough’,
and that might be a cost issue as this is a small church without a lot of money.

We may get charged per visit. I do not know what the arrangement between the MD and the dealer is.
But somebody in the church always uses them and this is a small town so they are it unless we go 60 miles for the next dealer.
I have to think that at what AH charges for these things that the dealer cant do much for free.

I think the dealer tekkies are not clueless. But they may not do things we need if we do not ask.
Are our leaders clueless, or are they trying to do the minimum to save money we dont really have to pay for this work.

I am convinced we could do a better job ourselves if everyone would just come in one day and do the work.
But that would take some prep to make sure we were all on the same page and agreed on what needs to be done and the sequence to do it. We might not have the absolute best unless we could rent that magic test equipment but it would be better than what we have now and not cost the church more money.

17

While your taking pictures take one of the main EQ screen the graphic and the parametric
as well as the EQ screen for the lapel mic channel.

Or just save the current state of the mixer as a scene, transfer the scene to a USB
and then email me that scene file.

18
Some of the problem may be our guys not asking them to do all the right things that are needed, just ‘enough’, and that might be a cost issue as this is a small church without a lot of money.

a correct initial setup to the needs of the church should be no money issue

19

@SteffenR

True

but this started many years ago and with every change they do not go back but leave settings they had
and only make changes the new equipment mandates be done