The way I understand the GLD operation is as follows
CURRENT always gives the name of the most recently recalled scene. But of course as soon as you make ANY change on the board what you have no longer corresponds to the “current” scene. It is the current scene plus the changes you just made. I guess something could be put in the GUI that indicated that you had changed something, but I really don’t see how that would be helpful since either
You are trying to change the stored scene, in which case you do recall, make your changes, save, or
You are actually using the scene to do something, so you will almost inevitable make some change or other almost immediately after recalling.
In either case you kind of know that what you have on the board is different from the most recently recalled scene.
The only exception to the above is when you first boot up, when current is blank , not unreasonably, since you haven’t yet recalled a scene.
NEXT always show the name of the scene which is selected in the scenes menu. So if you do a save it will save the current state of the board overwriting THAT scene name. Similarly if you do a recall it will recall that scene replacing whatever configuration you currently have on the board, modulo scene safes and filters of course.
On boot up this is not unreasonably set to scene 1.
Auto increment is simply equivalent to moving the selection down one.
I don’t do theatre so don’t really understand what the requirements are there, but for my uses the above arrangement seems perfectly logical and useable.
I haven’t noticed any random behaviour or any which isn’t explained by the above semantics.
I think the only reason for A&H´s reluctancy to do do something about this, is due to them not knowing what to do about it. Someone wrote some very bad code. Maybe fire the person, and hire another who can make it right? It would be just incredible that they would actually stand behind this logic!
How it acts when you first call up a show (on scene zero or one) is never an issue. I always start my shows on scene 5 or so.
How I WANT it to work is a large display to say “you are on this number scene”. Then, when I want to make a change, simply hit “save” and update the active scene. I then want to hit ONE button to go to next scene, have it recalled and displayed on the large “you are here” screen. Then, repeat as necessary. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. Having the active scene memory in a list view is great. Most of the software is brilliant. I would bet no one at AH has ever developed a show with about 200 scenes in a single show and had to update them on the fly, having seconds to make modifications and get on to the next scene fast enough that the director doesn’t realize it happened. Over the course of a rehearsal I can make hundreds of updates. Doing this was easy on the 02R.
Lets ignore confirmation dialogs for the moment. That is another kettle of fish…
This is strange… I initiated this discussion, because there is an issue with the desk that needs to be dealt with by the company, and expected some support for my agenda. Instead I´m getting all these opinions from people who later in the game admit that they “don´t work with scenes that much”, or that they “don´t do theater”.
In todays production environment you just need scene-automation, and you need it to work reliably. The “don´t do theater”- argument is totally absurd, as if scene memory was somehow an option you don´t need that much. What kind of gigs do you guys do, then? AC/DC- cover bands? How do you approach a situation where you need drastic changes to an acoustic drumkit, for instance, per song- just push trough with the one setting you made during the soundcheck? If so, you´re in the wrong business. Scene automation is an indispensable tool, and I´d rather pursue this subject with people who have something to contribute to it. The videolink will be available next week.
Tuomas Kolehmainen
Independent sound engineer, behind all kinds of mixers for 25 years
Helsinki, Finland
In defense of other people’s opinions: They are trying to help out. Most users of consoles do not heavily use memories. They have (relatively) eons of time to recall a scene and it does not matter how many pushes of buttons it takes to actually recall a scene.
But when you have to recall a lot of scenes between dialog in a script, things need to happen “NOW”. NOW does not happen with the present way A&H programmed their boards. Please note, mixing a band is a pleasure with my board, even using memories for different songs works well. With a band, there is almost time to nap between memory recalls. But then you need that much time to get it right.
Are you saying there’s a loss of data amidst recalling settings from the desk state? Can you make a very clear, objective procedure to recreate this symptom, citing your actions and any differences in behaviour to what’s expected? Start from a hard reset to factory settings to eliminate any historic corrupted data, and build a new scene or two in the procedure. I’m keen to get onto the same wavelength as you and understand the problem you’re having.
Oh, and one more thing for those who do not heavily use memories and are earnestly offering to help. First of all, thank you.
One big differences in the way we mix is we DO NOT look at the mixer OR the stage. We have one finger on the “next scene” button and are reading the script during critical times to assure timing, or to find where we are when the actors misses or adds lines at any moment. I cannot afford stare at a status screen to be sure the correct scene is coming up but I can very well count. Forward two scenes and back one results in an advancement of only one scene, shouldn’t it? Not with A&H.
If I am on cue 87 and an actor blows a line or three and I need to get to 89 “NOW” I want to only push the “next” button twice and be there. This is not assured with A&H depending on how you arrived at 87 to begin with.
Are you a heavy user of scene mems? I am asking not to exclude your opinion. I see you generously want to help. I just want to know if you have mixed live musical theater. If so then you know it is a different animal. Not better or worse. Just different for sure.
I understand how they want us to operate the memories. Data is not lost. It is frustratingly illogical.
I do use mine for some theater and for live radio broadcast, but suspect that my work flow is not nearly as scene-dependent as those who must follow a script as I tend to have an average of 8-10 lavs/earsets in a production and can use mute groups and DCA’s for some tasks. I currently have vision in only one eye so I likewise rely on things working as expected/required without having to do visual checks. For now I’ll have someone else call cues.
Does this aberrant behavior extend all the way up to the iLive?
Where ever we are now, I want to press one button to advance to the next scene and recall it too. One press to make active the next scene with a large “you are on this scene” display.
For example: I am on scene 137 and now want to recall scene 138 and have it active. One press please is all I ask. Not possible now.
Oh, and while I’m dreaming I would like an option to recall a scene without confirmation dialog but still have overwrite (save) confirmation in case I press the wrong button in performance.
John, to clarify: “wherever we are now” is the current (last recalled) scene. “next scene” is the scene after the last recalled scene in the list, and NOT the selected one. Am I understanding this absolutely correctly?
Yea Alright, but in order not to get overtly theatrical, I’d like to put forward a scene-change within a single piece of music (or several changes, for that matter): these have to happen even more instantaneously than many theatrical cues. So the workings of the recalls really do matter, a lot. I just do this one circus-season a year, with a live band, lots of cues, loads of things happening everywhere, all the time. And I can’t trust my desk. I would not be in trouble with just a concert, but the weird behaviour would annoy me a lot, nevertheless. But there still seems to be people out there, who think it’s hunky dory. I don’t get it.
Allow me to say it another way. There are two steps in “next scene”. First is to “recall next scene” then “take” (or go). Allen Heath only gives you the option to (GO and NEXT) which is bass-ackwards. I asked for an option of the inverse (NEXT and GO) which the enlightened world uses and is logical.
Yet another description: I am now on scene 10 happily listening to on-stage dialog and staring at a script. Now I want scene 11. I just want one press of a single button (as an option at least) to recall and take scene 11. I do not want to confirm my choice. I do not want to look away from a script. I do not want to be uncertain where I shall go when I press the button. Seems easy, yes? One of the programmable buttons would make this easy but is not an option.
OK, now I definitely need to fulfill my promise to shoot the video, this thing is looping around the logic of A&H’s approach, BUT I HAVE RANDOM ANOMALIES. actually i do not even know what is stored anymore… maybe my unit’s motherboard came from a dirty batch, yes/no/who knows/i don’t know. (Jimmy Buffett)
Yep. As I asked in a previous discussion: what can be so hard about present being the present, and the next in the future? Now all we’ve got is a whole lot of info about the future, that could just be one softbutton-press away from the NOW.
