@ Millst.
You can get away with a lot. Latency above 3 ms has proven to be a problem when singing with in-ear monitoring for some… not all singers.
At the risk of being boring, we’re extremely happy with our MADI set-up, which is the one described by Xvision:
“The only “acceptable” on paper seems to be MADI with an RME interface on the PC end” … although we use Mac rather than PC.
In fact, I had to ADD latency through MainStage to make the Ivory piano samples feel real: they were coming back at the pianists too quickly, which was uncomfortable. That’s possibly because the musicians were used to latency in the previous MOTU-based system.
Seems to be two different starting points for discussions here: running sample sources and simply routing live mics through the system, and there being a problem with latency. These would appear to be incompatible scenarios. In any case, it’s NEVER going to be possible to compensate fully for the alignment of different sound sources; this is a problem known to church organists and other sound stages where musicians have to compensate continuously.
www.pianojam.nl
RayS
R-72/iDR32/iPS10
Following the launch of the M-Waves option module for the iLive digital mixing system at Plasa, Allen & Heath and Waves are offering an interactive online webinar.
Aimed at engineers, rental companies, audio consultants and contractors, the event will provide information and understanding about the card and the SoundGrid technology. The sessions will start with an overview of the iLive product range, followed by a detailed discussion on installing the module and configuring Waves software. Also covered will be how SoundGrid can help with multitrack audio recording and playback during virtual soundcheck applications.
Hosted by Allen & Heath, two sessions are offered to suit your time zone. Experts from both Allen & Heath and Waves will be on hand to answer your questions.
Webinar Title: Waves plug-in processing, recording and playback with an iLive system
Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011
First session: 09:00 GMT/London, 10:00 Amsterdam/Paris/Rome, 16:00 Bangkok, 18:00 Tokyo, 20:00 Sydney
To reserve your webinar seat in this session click here
Second session: 17:00 GMT/London, 18:00 Amsterdam/Paris/Rome, 09:00 US/Pacific, 11:00 US/Central, 12:00 US/Eastern
To reserve your webinar seat in this session click here
After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the Webinar.
Webinar System Requirements
PC-based attendees
Required: Windows® 7, Vista, XP or 2003 Server
Macintosh®-based attendees
Required: Mac OS® X 10.5 or newer
quote:
You are dreaming if you think your ears are good enough to tell the difference between a signal delayed by just over half a meter.
That’s absolutely correct; there is a lot of BS talked about this kind of thing. Apart from anything else, live music with sound sources on a real stage are an awful lot more than 69cm apart, and with monitoring almost certainly not pointing the same direction as the FoH system, there is a lot of mish-mash of direct and indirect sound IRL. However, although it’s impossible to ‘hear’ the difference between sound delayed by 2 and 5ms, it is possible to ‘feel’ it in other ways: for example, I’ve introduced a 3ms delay into the piano sound being produced by Mainstage, through MADI, into our in-ears, because otherwise it felt like the keyboard was being played even before you pressed the key!
As a passive listener in a normal auditorium, I would not give much credit to anyone citing any meaningful effect in such a situation.
www.pianojam.nl
steffenromeiss
please can you give some links to read about this standart AVB?
1x T80
2x iDR32
2 X M-MADI CARDS
2 X M DANTE CARDS
desktop+2x RME HDSP MADI
Macbook Pro,2x Macmini+DVS
T34-T80-T112-T144
evolution of SOVIET TANK
This seems to be clearest explanation: https://www.avnu.org/files/static_page_files/AADD5FA4-1D09-3519-AD240815A16F57DC/AVnu%20Pro__White%20Paper.pdf
Thanks ddff_lv, one more question maybe you know were can i find materials about FIR filters and how apply them in crossover correctly. 
1x T80
2x iDR32
2 X M-MADI CARDS
2 X M DANTE CARDS
desktop+2x RME HDSP MADI
Macbook Pro,2x Macmini+DVS
T34-T80-T112-T144
evolution of SOVIET TANK
Robert,
FIR filters are very complex and I haven’t found so far any good and simple whitepaper. Best paper at the moment (if you’re about to dig it deep) is the one I have in my mini tech library - https://3s.lv/tech/Design_of_FIR_Filters.pdf
Basically you use software like FilterShop or MathLab to make a filter model and export coefficients file. Most of signal processors and amplifiers will not allow you to design the filter directly. For example I have Powersoft amplifiers and that accepts only imported coeffs. So far I had only one situation where I actually needed FIR, mostly All Pass is enough in my setups.
ddff
quote:
Originally posted by ddff_lvRobert,
FIR filters are very complex and I haven’t found so far any good and simple whitepaper. Best paper at the moment (if you’re about to dig it deep) is the one I have in my mini tech library - https://3s.lv/tech/Design_of_FIR_Filters.pdf
Basically you use software like FilterShop or MathLab to make a filter model and export coefficients file. Most of signal processors and amplifiers will not allow you to design the filter directly. For example I have Powersoft amplifiers and that accepts only imported coeffs. So far I had only one situation where I actually needed FIR, mostly All Pass is enough in my setups.
ddff
Monkey Forest will export the needed files…
I saw that for the DFC from HK Audio in 2004.
SRV-AVB
R-72, iDR-16, xDR-16, Dante
quote:
Originally posted by steffenromeissThe new standard in Ethernet based audio transmission is already known as AVB.
Dante is one of the first implementations of particular technologies of this standard.
Audinate is saying that it will be AVB compatible in the future.
Hi All,
Just to clarify, as you can read in the AVnu White Paper, AVB is a set of standards describing ‘interworking between various network link technologies’. It’s a new technology rather than an audio protocol in itself, pretty much like Ethernet is the technology behind TCP/IP, UDP etc.
‘These new standards provide a set of features to enable higher layer protocols and applications to realize professional quality services’.
The same document lists two draft standards for an AVB-based transport protocol: IEEE 1733 (Layer 3) and IEEE 1722 (Layer 2, designed to replace FireWire among others). Nonetheless, other higher layer protocols such as Dante can use AVB as well.
Nicola
A&H
quote:
Originally posted by nicolaHi All,
Just to clarify, as you can read in the AVnu White Paper, AVB is a set of standards describing ‘interworking between various network link technologies’. It’s a new technology rather than an audio protocol in itself, pretty much like Ethernet is the technology behind TCP/IP, UDP etc.
‘These new standards provide a set of features to enable higher layer protocols and applications to realize professional quality services’.
The same document lists two draft standards for an AVB-based transport protocol: IEEE 1733 (Layer 3) and IEEE 1722 (Layer 2, designed to replace FireWire among others). Nonetheless, other higher layer protocols such as Dante can use AVB as well.
Thanx for clarifying things…
What about ACE? Can it use AVB as well?
SRV-AVB
R-72, iDR-16, xDR-16, Dante
Were was many posts some time ago about Waves card,there was told that waves card uses IPv6 raw protocol and its faster than Dante, i am already starting from this summer working with “Waves multirack” native,
I think (i have never calculated exactly how much latency total) its about 8ms seems to me, so i dont use it direct inserts only groups .
But the main thing that it works perfectly and stable with DANTE MacBookPro does all the bit cruncher job, also plays some loops from ‘Ableton Live’.
DANTE seems to have much more available options for connecting various devises between them, it’s more like analog is universal connector for everything so DANTE is mostly the same, also it has options for developers to integrate DANTE int to professional equipment.
Wawes of course has some privileges in plugin usage more useful for sound engineers.
I really think that they should standardize formats and release only one Ethernet based format we already have ETHERSOUND , ROCKNET, DANTE, COBRANET, SOUNDGRID, what else?
1x T80
2x iDR32
2 X M-MADI CARDS
2 X M DANTE CARDS
desktop+2x RME HDSP MADI
Macbook Pro,2x Macmini+DVS
T34-T80-T112-T144
evolution of SOVIET TANK
The new standard in Ethernet based audio transmission is already known as AVB.
Dante is one of the first implementations of particular technologies of this standard.
Audinate is saying that it will be AVB compatible in the future.
Waves uses the same principles as Audinate, so I guess it will be AVB compliant in the future as well.
Ethersound and Cobranet will not become compatible to AVB.
I don’t know about ACE, but it could be that it is close to AVB.
SRV-AVB
R-72, iDR-16, xDR-16, Dante
steffenromeiss,
I see you just post and I am going to post what I think is the correct answer. Ace is Ethernet 802.3 IEEE Layer 2 protocall. I dont beleive that it would at this time Be avb ready. I hope that I am wrong and Maybe Nicola or One of the other very help A&H guys will chime in and correct me. What would be nice to see would be a Ace PCIe card to stream via ASIO in to a computer for recording. But then would we really need anything else. Some one feel free to correct on me on the ACE/AVB if needed.
JEFF FLOWERS
VOLCANO ADUIO PRODUCTS
SHEPHERDSVILLE KY-USA
quote:
Originally posted by RobertI really think that they should standardize formats and release only one Ethernet based format we already have ETHERSOUND , ROCKNET, DANTE, COBRANET, SOUNDGRID, what else?
Looks like someone is working on this…
quote:
Originally posted by StealthHi Torsten
The current plan is to start shipping modules at the end of the month.
Regards
Sam A&H
Hi Sam
what month it mean exactly?
Thanx,
Torsten
Hi Torsten
The modules are shipping now! They started shipping at the end of January, please contact your local distributor.
Regards
Sam A&H
quote:
Originally posted by StealthHi Torsten
The modules are shipping now! They started shipping at the end of January, please contact your local distributor.
Regards
Sam A&H
Hi Sam,
very cool!
i will call now and hope i get it fast…
THX
Torsten
today Waves Release they SG Drivers for the ILive Systems on the official Download site.
I hope the M-Wave Card will Release from A&H soon.
Any news abut how long?
Torsten