Is it possible to operate a QU-series console using Windows via USB or ethernet? If so, what software is required?
Nope, well unless here is an iOS emulator
additional question… What means operate here?
no remote control, no DAW control
but ASIO/WDM driver and MIDI over USB and network
software for Win is not available at this time, but we hope for it 
Since I have been evaluating digital consoles, I recently inquired to A&H sales about a Windows console interface and was told that they have no plans for such software. He referred to this feature as a “gadget feature.” This has caused me to give more serious consideration to other digital consoles.
Do you the reason why they have no plans?
He didn’t really say, just that he believes that Macs are better than PCs. As I have been a Windows user since the beginning of the OS, I do know that PC manufacturers have simply neglected the audio industry, and Apple has filled the void. It has been my experience, for example, that Windows laptops do not handle audio well - too much hum and power supply noise. In addition, the USB interface has bandwidth limitations, according to some, that may limit it’s use for multi-channel audio recording, as another example. This applies mostly to earlier USB implementations and has been eliminated with USB 3.0, but audio manufacturers in the meantime have gone to Firewire an Thunderbolt, a technology invented by Intel, I believe, but snubbed by most PC manufacturers. I could say more, but this is perhaps not the proper forum.
guys, you’re not stating to look for something else just because the Qu does not provide the HUI protocol on Windows?
…and thanks for stating USB2 can not handle multitrack audio. Done exactly this using the Qu along with my old Windows notebook, didn’t yet figure out it doesn’t work…
Exactly what did you do in multitrack using USB2 and a QU mixer? How many channels?
Iirc full audio support via windows - channel count depends on console
See 8.14 and 9 in the manual.
I’m aware that A&H claims that one can do multichannel recording and playback via USB2 and that the number of channels depends on the console - duhh. I was asking Andres about his experience - how many channnels have you successfully used with USB2 without any problems, such as drop-outs? The earlier part of this thread has to do with Windows operational control of the console, not recording.
Bob, this really could have been getting fun… 
Its not only me performing multitrack recording from the Qu to PC or Mac, which primarily depends if the host can handle that many streams properly. It is not a limit of USB2 (or classic FireWire which is slower!), in fact streaming 64 Channels (32in + 32out) at 48kHz and 24 Bits occupy about 70MBit/s of 480MBit/s USB2 could deliver, which is some 15%.
Anyway, I’ve only recorded up to 30 streams from the Qu(32) in parallel due to a lack of input sources… First 18 channels contain some downmixes (toms, guitars) since I’ve used the QuDrive in parallel to record those for backup purposes.
And my first response pointed out that without an iOS emulator there isn’t a Windows based remote control. There is an existing feature suggestion for an offline editor (which would likely make a trivial online editor as well).
I can understand the desire to stick with Windows or Mac to stay in familiar territory, but I don’t understand why one would choose to spend significantly more money to purchase a digital console that would work with an existing computer when consoles are in the thousands of dollars and computers in the hundreds.
The Qu series is still the best value for the money in a live/recording desk. I do my production work on Windows machines but picked up a factory refurbished Macbook and an iPad to work with the Qu. That said, I use a Seagate portable hard drive for USB multi-tracking and Sandisk Extremes for the Qu-drive. Once you have the .wav files, just load them into the computer/DAW of your choice.
As to the USB2 “argument”, that has been thoroughly debunked so many times I’ve lost count. It works, we all use it. End of story.
I can understand the desire to stick with Windows or Mac to stay in familiar territory, but I don’t understand why one would choose to spend significantly more money to purchase a digital console that would work with an existing computer when consoles are in the thousands of dollars and computers in the hundreds.
The Qu series is still the best value for the money in a live/recording desk. I do my production work on Windows machines but picked up a factory refurbished Macbook and an iPad to work with the Qu. That said, I use a Seagate portable hard drive for USB multi-tracking and Sandisk Extremes for the Qu-drive. Once you have the .wav files, just load them into the computer/DAW of your choice.
As to the USB2 “argument”, that has been thoroughly debunked so many times I’ve lost count. It works, we all use it. End of story.
Dick, when you are dealing with a non-profit organization such as a church, cost is always a major consideration. So adding the cost of a PC into the price of a mixer is not trivial. In addition, volunteers don’t always have the time or ability to learn a new computer system, so it is important to stay with what they know, if possible. However, I do agree that the mixer and it’s features and performance are the important things.
As to the USB matter, as I have been evaluating mixers, I get information from various sources regarding this. One place is the Presonus web site. Here is one article: Should I choose a FireWire or USB audio interface? (My first attempt to post a link - hope it works!) The basic advantages of Firewire are listed as (1) FireWire streams data rather than packets data, (2) FireWire is typically dedicated for audio/video purposes, thus avoiding interference from other services or hardware on your system, and (3) FireWire devices have the ability to cascade or daisy-chain components. The writer then gives some disadvantages of Firewire, which basically boil down to better compatibility of USB and its lower cost. Bandwidth, which USB3 has in spades, is not the whole issue.
I don’t seem to find as much technical information on the A&H site. In forums like this, you get all kinds of opinions, many not completely spelled out and backed up with resources. You say, for example, that the USB argument has been thoroughly debunked, but give no references. A participant on another A&H thread mentions problems he’s been having with USB, so who is one to believe?
I have a Firewire 800 card in my Windows desktop that is required for a Presonus mixer I use with one organization I support, and I use USB with another smaller mixer. Both work for my purposes, but my laptop does not support Firewire, so I can’t use it with the Presonus for recording, but can use it via ethernet for control of the console. Can’t do that with a QU-series mixer. Most laptops, if equipped with Firewire, only support FW400, but Presonus requires FW800, so multi-channel recording may be problematic with an inexpensive PC laptop and a Presonus mixer. At least A&H makes it possible to do multi-channel recording to a USB hard-drive or SSD. So, personally speaking, I’m on the fence with this issue.
I agree with the thought expressed by a participant in another thread who lamented the fact that A&H is missing a large pool of possible users by not supporting Windows as a console interface.
Why would you need windows based remote control in a church setting.
Assuming the cost of “the other” mixer is less than £200 more than the QU then adding an iPad is easy in terms of budget.
I guess that the “other” mixer is a Berry X32, great mixer for church has the remote capability you are looking for.
The USB vs FireWire debate is as old as the hills, and with USB2 on the QU there is plenty of bandwidth (15% saturated?), so the buffers which exist at both ends should be fine.
Recording to QuDrive would be my church recommendation, and that doesn’t need a PC at all…
G…
Well, it’s always nice to get more information regarding your concerns and issues in decision making, but it’s a bit discouraging to be informed of such issues AFTER addressing the initial question. How were we to know that it was a multi-user situation with budget limitations until now? This presents a whole 'nother set of issues having less to do with the thread title than one would wish.
If it comes down to budget and having to utilize existing gear that’s another discussion. As to the Firewire/USB issues:
Firewire is history. There’s a reason why it has been dropped by manufacturers of audio and computers and relegated to the dustbin of history. I’ve owned and used Presonus stuff with Firewire and can express the result in one word: unreliable.
The Qu USB “just works” as the old saying goes.
Go ahead and do your best. It doesn’t matter to me what you buy and use. I’ve made my choice after going through the decision making process to have the most workable, reliable and dependable/robust system for the money having selected Qu for my business.
It’s a large part of how I make my living. For recreational and church use you probably can get along with less.
Bob and Dick, thanks for your contributions to this discussion. I do not have another specific mixer in mind, having looked at Presonus, Behringer, A&H, and the Soundcraft Si Expression, which is also a very capable digital mixer. Each has certain desirable features. Of these, I think I do prefer the A&H QU, but I’m one who likes to be sure all the options have been explored, so I present them for discussion. Reliability is a tough item to judge, as each person has a different experience, and each piece of equipment is different, statistically. In addition, these particular mixers have not been around that long. Your comments have been helpful, even if they do betray some level of bias. Clearly, you like this product, and that says something important. Thank you.
To give you some context…
I was one of the main decision makers for replacing our church desk about 6 years ago (after an incident with drinks) and we decided to remain analogue. 2-3 years ago we refurbished the building, and other factors (mainly the desire for a PA desk that could be put away to provide a multifunction room) meant that we went digital.
At the time we made the “right” decision for us, and got a Roland M300.
I don’t think I would make the same decision now - the world of digital mixers has moved on, and the price is too high, the only USP is the awesome remote control of the M48 personal monitors (ME-1 equivalent), but since those are ~£800 a pop it’s not a feature I’ve ever played with…
Another church I have a reasonable amount of contact with has recently (~1 year maybe) got a Behringer X32, and they are happy with that - fixed mix position, analogue multicore - it was a drop in replacement when their 25+ year old mixer died. They are still happy with it, and I’ve had a bit of a play on it - it’s not a bad board at all.
Buying for myself, I replaced a Behringer DDX3216 which I’d used for a number of years. I was running out of auxes and the entire rig was a bit heavy and cumbersome.
However cost was a serious factor. I’ve split the cost with a friend who runs a hire company. We split the revenue from hiring the desk, and have personal use free.
This meant that we spent a long while discussing what to get, and from which manufacturer. In the end the workflow of the desk, and reputation of the A&H brand won the day, and I don’t regret that decision at all.
If I was just buying for myself, then I’d be sorely tempted by the QuPac (I was sorely tempted by the X32 Rack last year), since I do almost all of my work from QuPad - as it is I am hoping that the QuPac will result in upgrades to QuPad in terms of FX and talkback control, but having the full control surface is essential from the hire half of the deal.
So…
Depending on your church scenario:
- Are you replacing a desk in place, retaining analogue multicore infrastructure to a fixed position?
- Are you refurbishing and looking to make the space more flexible?
- Are you running a team of dedicated and competent volunteers, or a paid tech director?
I’d suggest that remote control comes way down the list of requirements in most churches, and that most desks now provide “enough” remote control, even if it costs an extra £199 for the base model iPad.
Look for channel count, look at what style of worship you anticipate over then next 10-15 years, look at auxes - loops, foyer feeds, recording systems, monitor mixes, video feeds?
Look at digital multicore options, look at positioning in the building. Look at acoustic treatment and speakers/processors/amps…
Of course we have a “bias”. We chose this product from among the others. FWIW, I own and use other consoles, both digital and analog so I have a personal frame of reference. As someone who has used such products for the last 50+ years I’ve seen things come and go. I used Presonus mixers for a few years but divested my stock due to reliability and customer support issues.
As I said before it makes no difference to me what you choose. But I expect any serious “discussion” to include all salient and applicable conditions in the first post, not to encounter them as piecemeal refutations of or objections to any replies to the initially presented scenario. Otherwise it becomes just another passive/aggressive internet forum exercise in trollery.
I do understand the church/HOW market, having done installs and training as a part of my business. I can truly state that IME the budgets involved typically expand to cover what is wanted but seldom to cover what’s actually needed. I hope you’re not stuck in that.
Good luck…but don’t hold your breath waiting for the marketplace offerings to dovetail with your personal ideas of right and wrong.