-20dB input pad causing mix-group level issues

SQ SQ Troubleshooting
1

I mix on the SQ5 at a medium size venue that has 3 mix zones in addition to the main FOH sound. These 3 mix zones provide some back of the room fill-in sound at the Bar, the Dining area and the lounge. I was able to pinpoint an issue I’ve been noticing over the last 6 months while mixing at this venue. First, signal path wise–I have confirmed with the installer, that these 3 mix zones are fed by three separate groups which all are replicating the Main L/R mix. Each group is then routed from the SQ, to the AHM where ONLY a little bit of High Pass filter is applied due to the smaller nature of the speakers in those locations. The signal is then passed on to one of three rack mounted amplifiers that then feed a stereo pair of speakers in each location at the venue.

Here is the issue:
If an input channel has the pad engaged, that channel is essentially in-audible in the remote mix zones. The FOH mix sounds great and that channel with the Pad is loud and clear at FOH, but that SAME channel, in the remote zone, is essentially inaudible unless I raise the channel fader a lot which then makes the FOH mix terrible and inappropriate.

While troubleshooting this issue, if I don’t use the pad and let’s say i have a VERY hot DI from a Bass player’s setup, I can bring the input channel gain [without the pad] down to 3dB and that is a good strong level. The bass will be heard in the remote zones. Now, if I engage the Pad, AND then bring the gain up to 23dB, which is then essentially replicating the same input signal level on that channel, the sound in the FOH will be the same, but the Bass won’t be heard in the mix on the remote mix zones. It “seems” almost like the pad is acting kind of like a mute button as far as sound getting to the remote mix zones fed by groups.
So, I am wondering does anybody else have an issue with Groups where if an input channel in that group is using a pad, that channel’s audible level greatly drops off in the group while still being heard in the Main L/R [FOH] output?

2

If you actually want to replicate the FOH mix, wouldn’t it be better to use matrixes, fed from the LR bus?

3

Are you sure the feeds to the zones are from groups and not auxes?

If auxes the send levels on the input channels may not be set the same so the resulting “mix” to the zones will not track the main mix.

As Dave mentioned if you want the same mix as FOH to feed the remote zone matrix mix outs would be easier and still give you level controls and some processing to the zones

4

Yes…I absolutely getting sound to the remote mix zones via groups. I do not have to set levels or mix anything to get the sound together for the extra zones.

5

The gain and pad should work together. If you monitor the channel input levels with the VU meters, then the combination of the pad and gain should be peaking into the yellow zone of the VU meter if adjusted correctly.

Next, you need to check the routing of the input strip signal to both L/R MAIN and the groups feeding your zones.

The groups can be setup to feed both an output from the desk (I assume feeding your zone amplifiers) AND the L/R MAIN. In this case, you may be ‘double accounting’ for the signal in the L/R MAIN.

Also, check the VU meters on the Group and main L/R outputs to see what they are doing.

Dave