Best setup for theater

SQ SQ General Discussions
1

I’m trying to set up my SQ7 so that I am getting the best sound for my theater kids. Usually have around 25 microphones. I work in a school so we don’t use the SQ7 very often. I want to set up the SQ7 so that I am getting the best signal and best control however I can’t seem to have both things. My hope is that I can set up the SQ7 so that the output volume is balanced, all the faders are at unity so this way I have the best resolution and fine control and the signal coming in is around -18 so this way I have a quality signal. I am thinking I need to route the main layer where the channels are to possibly a group or an auxiliary mix.

When I set the signal to -18 on the gain, sometimes I need to bring the faders down so that the output volume is good. Same thing with the Main LR. I try to keep that at unity also. When I tried to send it to a group the group faders mirror the main layer faders which is not what I want. Then I was thinking maybe I should route it to an auxiliary mix and have the auxiliary mix go to the mains and deselect the channels from the main LR however everything I read says the auxiliary mix is for monitors.

When I look up videos on how to better use groups everyone uses groups to combine different things such as drums or a group of singers so this way I can manipulate them with one fader as well as tweak EQ. This is not what I want to use the group for I want individual control of all of the voices but I want all of the faders at unity. Basically set up the signal on layer A along with adjusting the faders so that the output volume is good and balanced and then on layer B have all of my faders at unity controlling the volume of the coinciding channels on layer A.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

2

You should take a look at TheatreMIx
Might be of use to you.

3

It sounds like you are wanting to use an AUX rather than a GRP. From a channel strip to a GRP is effectively a switch. From a channel strip to an AUX is a potentiometer.

It sounds like you would need to setup the AUX for post fade operation. In this configuration, adjusting the channel strip fader or the input to the AUX mix will both adjust the signal level at the output of the AUX channel.

If this is what you want from your system go with it! An AUX would normally be used for a foldback wedge, but this would also be configured for pre-fade - so the foldback mix is independent of the main mix. However, this will not be what you actually want! Just because a book says something, doesn’t mean you can’t use it as you want!

You then route the output from the AUX to the amplifier/speakers and unroute the channel strips from the mains. Or leave the mains and just don’t connect them to anything. Also, in this mode, the main L/R fader will be inoperative.

Look at the block diagram for the SQ desk to see what signal path options are available and what are not.

Dave

4

I second the suggestion of using TheatreMix, but I think you are a way from adding that to your setup.

The first thing you need is a better understanding of gain structure in order to get the SQ doing what you want it to do.

If your desire is to have all of the channel faders at unity as your base, setting all of the input gains to -18 is not going to get you there. As you’ve already discovered, every input source is going to reach the desk at a different level, and the gain control is the first* step in bringing everything together. You need to adjust gain for each channel to bring the signal up (or down) to the level you want. Normally, this would be a few decibels below 0 on the meter most of the time, and a few dB above it on the loudest peaks. In general, microphone signals will be low, and need to be raised quite a bit. Instruments coming in through a DI, including direct XLR outs from an amplifier, will be significantly hotter and some, especially keyboards, may need to have the input gain lowered. This will get you to a decent baseline, but you still have to actively mix the show. It will also give you a good starting point for anything you send to an AUX.

  • Sometimes the first step is to have the musician reduce their signal level to you in order to give you control over the mix.

Once you have the incoming gains set, and your output masters at unity, you need to set the amplifier gains so the loudspeakers produce the level of sound you need in the room, and at any AUX destinations.

A few words about auxiliary (AUX) mixes. Ignore what you have read. Yes, they are used for “monitors”, especially in live music, but that is not their only use. An AUX is a signal created from the input sources that is sent somewhere other than the main speakers. An AUX can contain all of the sources, or only some of them. They can be set up as PRE-fade, where the signal is created before the channel output fader so changes to the LR mix don’t affect the AUX, or POST-fade, where raising or lowering a channel in the mains will also do it in the AUX mix. In theater AUXes are typically used to create program feeds to go to different offstage areas, assisted listening systems, recording, etc, as well as monitors for pit musicians. All of these will be POST-fade except the monitors, and even those aren’t always PRE-fade. Whether they are PRE or POST, the level of each channel going to an AUX can be set individually.

Groups (GRP) are used to control multiple channels with a single fader. When you assign a channel to a group you normally remove it from the main LR mix, and send the GRP there. All of the assigned channels will have their level raised or lowered the same amount whenever you adjust the GRP fader. GRPs have processing, and insert busses, making them very useful for applying the same EQ/Compression/Gate/etc. to a bunch of channels. When doing corporate audio on small analog mixers, my practice was to assign all of the lav mics to a group and then run that through an inserted EQ – not as good as a full parametric on each channel but better than nothing.

This gives you your basic setup with all of your faders beginning at unity. No matter how well you get this dialed in, you will still have to change the mix during the show because someone will be playing or singing louder or quieter then normal. Or a mic gets moved in the pit and no one puts it back.

You may also have to adjust the level of an entire mix, and the easiest way to do that is with its master fader, since most of the time the amps aren’t going to be accessible.

5

25 microphones (certainly a mix of fixed installations and wireless) is obviously right a lot for a (children’s) theater.
Are you sure that’s even necessary?
Is this your idea, or did someone recommend it to you?
Many microphones don’t always help much.
Sometimes a few cleverly positioned spot microphones are enough.
And if children are to learn acting, conscious use of their voices is of course part of it.
But I don’t want to lecture you.

Perhaps it’s also more of a musical with musicians?
Or is it perhaps planned for an open-air performance?
I just think you should definitely involve someone with expertise in setting up this project!

In addition to what has already been written:
Don’t forget to use scenes – ideal for the individual scenes of your play.
And if necessary, also look into the possibilities of using AMM.

6

I have played around with theater mix in the past maybe I will look into that again. I needed to switch a bunch of kids around with different microphone numbers and had difficulty with that.

7

Thank you so much Dave. I will have to find that block diagram and see what my options are. There is so much to learn on the SQ. I appreciate your response.

8

You are exactly right opus, I need a better understanding of gain structure. Thank you for explaining auxiliary. That clears some things up for me. This is basically how I have been using auxiliary mix. I have just been using them for monitor wedges and for behind stage so that the
kids know what’s happening in the play.

You make a good point when you say you will still have to adjust the faders throughout the show. I am not looking for a simple fix I understand that things will need to be adjusted as they performance is going on but I just want my initial setup to be the best that it can be. I do not do this very often so I really appreciate your guidance.

9

Thank you for getting back to me SQ user. Not my idea :joy::joy:. I have tried to use scenes in the past but I end up screwing up things. Sometimes settings would change sometimes the gain would be different or the fader would be at a different point or a monitor mix would be unassigned it was either one thing or a bunch of things so I have pretty much stayed away from that. I need to get a better understanding of global filters and other things like that before I start messing around with scenes. I currently use scenes to save my rehearsal and for each show. I am a huge fan of AMM. It is a lifesaver when they are speaking. Very helpful feature. Thank you again for responding to my post much appreciated.

10

A really meaningful use of scenes for such a theater project is actually only possible from firmware version 1.6 onwards with the introduction of the Cue List.

In your case, it would really be better to save scenes as scenes and shows as shows. )

11

The block diagram is available from the A&H website dowload (resources) area, “SQ-7 Tech Datasheet”.

This is THE most important document to understanding of the available signal paths.

Note that this document is for firmware version 1.5.

If you go into the SQ-Rack area, you will find that A&H have a firmware version 1.6 document available (not that there is too much different).

Dave

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12

First of all I would suggest to check if you really need 25 single Microphone Channels. There is obviously nearly no way so many people can talk to public on stage at the same time or within a short scene. So i guess you have 25 Actors and each one has its personal Mic but in a single scene there are much less of them needed the same time?

Then you should check at least if it is possible to build Mic groups or have per-scene patch maps. You also may check if it is possible to replace some of those Mics by a lesser number of good-positioned room microphones (small diaphragm condensers, boundary mics on floor/ceiling/hidden in requisites and such things), especially when we talk about actors with very little text, a background choir or such things. Sometimes it is also much easier to use a simple wireless handheld Mic which can be handed over between actors than having dozens of headset mics which cannot. Maybe you also should consider to have per-scene patch mappings and preamp settings.

However, another thing I would suppose is to check how the AMM Unit of your Mixer could help here. It is mainly made for conference and podium discussion applications (and can do a great job there), but it should also be a very good working tool for speaking roles in a theater and could help you to bring the actually used mic to the foreground without needing any interaction.

Next I would suggest to have as much and as hard noisegates on speaker Mics as possible. Reduce the amount of noise on the sum to the unavoidable minimum. And of course whereever possible use some High Pass Filter to block out unwanted deep noise generated by handling, wind, breathing or costumes. Reduce every signal to the really needed stuff (but not less) before mxing it anywhere. That also means to have a look at the Mic Handling. Headsets make that easy on a first view, but they must be positioned correctly to avoid breathing and beard noises and to get good signal levels. Oh, and if possible try to use cardioid headsets instead of omnidirectional ones - they definitely can keep out a lot of noise, too, and give you more gain before feedbacak (of course, they won’t make sense if you use lavalier Mics on the forehead as some musical technicians do). Beware: they may bring noticeably another colour into the sound so for a singer this may also be a no-go, depending on the noise and the wanted sound.

Some Compression for unsure speakers could also be a good idea - the more sophisticated the speaker, the less compression should be there because a good speaker can use its voice dynamic. But a non-trained speaker can’t, so a solid amount of Compression can help there without breaking things more than they are anyway.

Also if you have a Band, Choir or Orchestra in your theater it would be a good thing to treat the Mix of that as separate as possible, maybe by patching back a separate Mix for that into a “stereo Aux Input” Channel of the Main Mix so you can easy control the levels of Talking and Music (or even use a ducker for the music signal which gets triggered by the talk mics)

Ah, and you know the tweak on the SQ Consoles to fast-setting faders to unity? Just hold the reset button while giving the fader a small direction tip. May make things easier for you (also works with setting faders to zero).

13

Cue list? That might be a good reason to upgrade to the 1.6 version. That could be very handy.

14

It would be a must if you want to use scenes as such at all.

Yes, of course, that should be a prerequisite for working with it.
But you could start by storing at least your mutes in scenes so that you only open the channels used in the respective theater scene.

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15

Eschwenk… thank you for your response. I recently got pencil condenser mics that I may use if I run out of mics. Could you clarify the compression comment with unsure voices. I typically use compression for kids who are dynamic when they speak to kind of level them out. I have never used it for quite kids. Is that what you are recommending? I hear that compression makes the vocals sound better but have not messed with it enough to fully understand how to effectively use it. I will have to experiment a little more with it. I’m afraid if I compress the vocal too much I will run into issues cause I have to turn up the gain.

16

Hi,

Definitely sounds like you’ve got your hands full! 25 mics for a show isn’t unusual, but you’re definitely going to want some careful management to dodge the feedback monster. As folks have said, Scenes will really help you here, by managing which microphones you have on or off at any given moment. Ultimately, the goal is to make sure you only have the microphones turned on (unmuted) that you actually need on, with everything else muted. The ideal state would be that every actor’s mic was only on when they were talking (what’s called “line by line mixing”), but that’s super-hard to get to and in children’s theatre may not actually be possible.

So instead, group your mics according to who’s onstage and talking, and let that define your Scenes on the mixer. (This may or may not correspond to the actual “scenes” in the show — I find I wind up with many more Mixer-Scenes than Show-Scenes, because Mixer-Scenes change when the group of people on stage or active changes.) That way the Scene takes care of muting/un-muting mics for you and you’re free to mix the ones that are open to keep the levels consistent. When you’re working with Scenes, I always tell people to start by going to Scenes → Global Filter and set anything you don’t want to have changing to “Block”. For me, that includes almost everything under Inputs except Name and Mute (and maybe AMM), so that advancing from one scene to the next doesn’t suddenly change or reset the channel processing out from under me.

For compression and EQ, I’ll often do some per-channel processing with both of them, and then feed all the vocal channels into a Vocal Group/Aux on the mixer. So none of my vocal channels are going to Main L/R by themselves; they go to the Vocal mix and that goes to Main L/R. That both gives me a single knob to pull down when the singers are wailing away at full voice, and allows me to apply some gentle compression to the whole bunch to tame any super-loud voices. Compression on individual channels is helpful with the super-quiet kids that OCCASIONALLY DELIVER A LINE AT FULL VOICE because you can turn up their gain without worrying (as much) about them blowing everyone’s ears out suddenly. Compressing the whole group helps whack down the sopranos when they’re all singing high notes, to keep the overall singing level more consistent. :slight_smile:

Also, take full advantage of the offline features of MixPad to build your show the way you want it, and then you can load your show file onto the mixer. That gives you breathing room to assemble things carefully and test changes before you’ve got the director glaring at you from the audience for holding up rehearsal to make adjustments! Especially now that version 1.6 is out, you can do almost everything from MixPad in advance, and then you can load up the show and test it out in the theatre. (Often, I’ll have the show up and be advancing through Scenes even when the kids don’t have mics and there’s nothing going through the mixer because we’re running light cues!)

Hope that helps — break a leg!

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17

Unfortunately, only almost everything, because the cue list and cue list editor described here seem to have been “forgotten” in offline mode, or something like that – I still have no idea why.
So, unfortunately, you can’t just sit down at the MixPad with your playbook and calmly somewhere create your cue list.

18

This is true — I’m guessing the Cue List functionality is being built into the next MixPad release, because I’d be surprised if they added the ability to modify things like the AMM and then didn’t add the ability to modify the Cue List. :slightly_smiling_face:

Given that the Cue List is pretty much just a wrapper around the Scene List, at least you can work up all of your scenes in MixPad offline, and then assemble the Cue List once you’re connected. Also, I checked and the Cue List does show up in MixPad if you are connected to a mixer, so (1) the functionality is present and just needs the “available offline” tag, and (2) if you have access to any SQ mixer, you can at least create a Cue List from MixPad. (So, for instance, I can use the one in my office to assemble the Cue List and then pull the show file over to the theatre mixer for use in a show.)

19

I appreciate your detailed response. I need to learn more about the filter as that was screwing me up when I tried to use scenes. I will experiment with that before using it in a show. I use WWB 7 to coordinate frequencies so that helps. I just started playing around with mix pad and it has been very useful. I think I might update the mixer to 1.6 as I would like to use the cue feature. I am assuming it is like theatre mix.

20

Well that sucks. Hopefully they update the mix pad to add that functionality.