@Frank
understand what you mean
@keithjah
are there any news on this, or even a status update?
We released the updated firmware for Qu earlier in the year - this included all the tweaking we can carry out at the Qu end to stabilise USB streaming with a wider range of systems.
We’ve made similar changes with SQ, though are periodically revisiting this, especially as changes are made to Windows and Mac operating systems.
As in the first page of this topic, the first thing to do is check your system for realtime audio suitability - most of the issues we’ve spoken to users about have turned out to be standard computer audio related problems, solved (in Windows) through using DPC Latency Checker or LatencyMon to pin down the culprit.
Some other issues are covered in Qu/SQ knowledgebase articles(https://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1205/338/troubleshooting-issues-with-the-sq-usb-b-interface).
Thanks,
Keith.
And what about Mac users??
So let me get this correct? You have exhausted all A&H’s and the computer industries resources and consider the subject closed.
Yet you only give a generic solution, which doesn’t work, for Windows users. But not Mac.
You do not give a list of computer hardware compatible with your mixers. We are supposed to purchase A&H products, and hope we recommend these to others.
We all suspect A&H is either way in over its head or incompetent. Would you like all of us to help you decide?
You make it sound like if we do the steps outlined in your link, that will solve the problem, which it doesn’t. You also don’t give any real information why your products are having issues. How about posting the full problem your products are having compatibility with, you know the technical details. If A&H can’t solve them maybe someone out your walls can.
I’ve been involve in the computer industry since about 1980 and rarely has there been a problem that couldn’t be resolved with by either a firmware change or a part replacement and firmware change.
Fix the problem!!!
The source of the problem has already been discussed. Intel’s USB3+ chips deviated from standard design thus introducing the incompatiblity. If you use a workstation, find a USB2 or a non-Intel USB3 card to install. For laptops, find one that doesn’t use Intel chips or find an older USB2 only laptop.
I just find it hard to buy that the problem is on Intel’s side. A&H has to accommodate this “non-standard” implementation. Intel has a huge market share which effectively makes their USB implementation a “standard.” A&H needs to get in line with all the other vendors who have to deal with the same issues and fix this so it works properly.
Don’t get me wrong, I really love these boards, but as others have said, this USB issue really is a big problem.
I would be interested, if digital mixers of other companies for example Presonus, Soundcraft, Yamaha etc., have the same problem? Does anybody know something about this? If they dont have this problem, there is a big problem for A&H, because they will lose a lot of customers, who want to buy a band- or studio-mixer for multitrack recording. For me, that was the reason for buying this Qu 16. And I am not happy, that I was forcerd to buy an used Lenovo Thinkpad TP410 to solve the problem, because before I buyed a super modern strong Lenovo Ideapad with 16 GB Ram for over 1000€ for this purpose, and now I cannot use it! The Thinkpad did cost 450€ extra with a new SSD Disk.
Here’s a link to a discussion i’ve started on intel-communities…
https://communities.intel.com/thread/122542?start=15&tstart=0
Best regards,
Smokehead
So everybody pushes the problem from one to the other. Intel says, that A&H and/or Microsoft is “guilty”, but they forget, that some Macs are involved also. And since 04/2018 this thread is also “dead”, no news… So, we are waiting and waiting and nobody is able to find a solution. Very frustrating! So again my question: I would be interested, if digital mixers of other companies for example Presonus, Soundcraft, Yamaha etc., have the same problem? Does anybody know something about this? I use a small Yamaha MG12XU analog mixer as well and don’t have any USB-problems with it!
And another question:
Did anybody, especially A&H, contact Microsoft (and Apple) in terms of the USB 3.0 problem, like Intel proposed?
Why is it not possible for A&H to build a complete new way for transporting the stream to the DAW, using the new standard USB 3.0, as it exists on ALL new laptops and PC’s? I know, they would need a new firmware also, but it can not be, that thousands of A&H-users since about two years or longer are not able to use the feature “USB-Recording” on a lot of common modern computers. I don’t think, that the transport of WAV-files can be sooooo complicated if it already is possible to transport huge video-files in time without no problems with USB 3.0.
So I will look into other forums of other mixers from Presonus, Soundcraft, Yamaha and will see, if they have also similar problems. If not, we have to think about the recommendation to change the mixers of A&H to working solutions of other companies. That would be a shame, but not avoidable, if we want to have a stable system for multitrackrecording, if A&H will not be able to solve it in next time. We have to work with our equipment and cannot wait for ever!
Lol, not saying it will happen, but you see class action lawsuits coming from these types of issues. Hopefully A&H will be able to fix. If not I’m sure at least some people will want their money back and move on to the competition.
Problem solved. Like A&H did to us, I sold it to an unsuspecting fool. Done with it. Later
I asked around in a german musican-forum, if they know similar problems with other mixers. Until now, nobody told me about problems with it. A person recommended a Midas M32R mixer. He never had USB-problems with it, never was thinking about USB 2 or 3. Routing to USB is one knob. The mixer looks nice, has all things, what it has to have, including connection to my Android Mixing-Station-Pro! If A&H/Microsoft/Intel or who else will not solve the problem in the next months, I really think about selling the A&H Qu 16 to somebody, who don’t need multitrackrecording to a DAW und buy a Midas M32R perhaps. This unfortunately will break up my business relationship to A&H and I think, it will get around. This will be not good for A&H! And I think, that’s a pity!
I know of three other owners who have been silent on the issue. They like many others just downgraded their workstations as a workaround.
This is unbelievable. First you had to have some “special luck” and exactly the right USB drive to record multi-track live. Lost shows, unhappy clients, probably lost business besides. Then this USB issue that has been nearly a year in the making.
A&H doesn’t give crap about it’s customers. These are problems with A&H.
I don’t know about each of your business situations, but mine cannot, and will not, be held hostage by the lack of professionalism of A&H. Long term customers are hard to develope with excuses and equipment that doesn’t work.
Like I said. Problem Solved. It’s sold. Bye, bye A&H.
I don’t support your decision to sell the device to someone who doesn’t know about it. You should have told him or her about that issue. It’s just mean and very poor behaviour.
But yes, i’ve thought about selling too. But i just don’t want to give up the device as well as i’m not willing to accept the loss in worth because the device is a few months old and not working properly. I bought it for about 1700€ and i would just get something about 900-1000€ . That’s not what i’m willing to accept. Not yet.
I still really hope Allen & Heath will resolve this issue in a few weeks/months.
People have to work with equipment which fullfills the specifications it has been advertised with.
Best regards,
Smokehead
Does anybody know, if this problem occurs also with the SQ-Mixers? Somebody told me, that with V1.2 he had no problems anymore with a SQ-Mixer.
Dear Qu Users
This a report about the Qu series issues.
I’m a musician from Germany (Bavaria) working since 40 years as a professional keyboarder on stage.
In January 2015 I buy my QU 16.
History:
Until 2017 I use a Multiface II with cables to my QU 16, then I use usb streaming.
In March 2017 I started with streaming multi audio file playbacks from my software via ASIO usb from pc to QU – Sound excellent - using also midi to control QU with my Software.
Working in difference occupation - example what happens:
A Gig: Streaming live on stage - people dancing - partytime - suddenly - music stops - crazy and terrible.
What happens - I realised the problem step by step over two years and I will explain you, because this is the reason for QU issues and a problem of AH because they can’t fix the problem.
QU Mixer, Workstaion (PC), Lights (LEDS) and some other components are normal affiliated on the same circuit working on stage in a Hotel, Restaurant or similary locations.
On stage, when playing gigs open air and so on - there are separate circuits - no problem when streaming, while QU and PC on separate circuit only and no other power consumer connected.
So first I realised that the driver crashed, when all components on the same circuit and someone for example turn on a beamer, plug in and starts a simple fan or turn on a neonlight on stage switched at the same circuit the whole system is connected.
THINKING – WHAT HAPPENS – RESULT
The usb Controller on board the QU mixer can’t stabilize minimal voltage speaks - result: the driver crash - a littel window appears - now asio driver found - music stops ……
I send several Mails within all informations to German support, I test several mainboards with several PC Systems Windows 7 64bit prof, Windows 10 64bit prof build 1803 and so on in in the last 10 months - watch the video…
Send a Mail to A & H - Answer was: sorry but we can’t realised your problem……
I’m living in a little town 30 km from Thomann, buy there since 40 years. In August 2018 (because A & H do not answer when I sending all results of the issues) I visit three times the PA Stuff in Treppendorf with my QU - PCS - and a foog Machine - switched all components on the same circuit - open the QU driver panel and starts foging - driver crash - (watch the video). I taste several QU Mixers at Thomann, with severel PCS and the result: driver crash or distortion sound when straming playbacks from the PC to the QU.
SUPPORT A & H – Abstract from the last support Mail 07.11.2018:
Leider kann Dir Christian und auch Allen&Heath bei Deinem Problem mit dem Treiber des QU16 nicht weiter helfen.
Der Verdacht liegt nahe, dass es sich um ein Hardware Problem handelt und wir das nicht so schnell gefixt bekommen.
CONCLUSION
The issue with the QU series and usb audio streaming is 100% the result of the usb controller on the QU mainboard and maybe some electronic components built in on the mainboard inside the QU mixer. The usb controller built in mainboard of QU mixer series can’t stabilize minimal voltage speaks and seperate the driver between pc and the QU. It is not a problem of intel chipset or windows OS. A & H company knows it…. They want to sweep it under the carpet!
So it is very expensive for A & H to change all boards of the QU Mixers and logical they are blocked the support.
Please A & H be honestly to the user and tell them that you can’t fix the issue problem with firmware and software updates, further stop the failed information that problem is outside of your company. Explane the user it is 100 % your own error.
And please tell your employees - answer when users ask questions a little bit earlier.
Truth is better than lying……
Best regards from Tizian (Klaus) (ask Christian Hähnlein - German Support - he is involved and up to date with the issue of the QU series and he knows my person - also Holger one of the best master of the PA stuff by Thomann)
Furthermore thanks to the Thomann PA stuff - they spend a lot of hours, when I represent the issues, because they take my problem seriously.
A & H support mail answer me, text: - sorry, but we can’t realise your problem …
ha ha ha and lol ….
I invite A & H via mail to Thomann - they answer: no interst - i know why - they 100 % familiar with the problem.
All QU users can reproduce the issue:
Switch the QU - the pc - a fog machine - in a power strip stucked in the same circuit – – connect the usb ports pc and qu – open the QU Asio Panel – start fogging two times per second (push the buttom) … watch my video - driver crash or in windows 7 sometimes distortion sound appears or driver crash when playback via usb from the pc.
At least this is the reason why A & H is cautios when user ask - please fix the problem!!! - result: it’s to expensive for A & H to fix it (they must change the motherboard complet in the QU mixer).
When streaming playbacks live on stage the QU is a No Go - it’s better to use the Mixer in a living room for childrens karaoke partys - excuse me … (I love my Baby QU, but it’s sick and A & H give them not the right medicine).
Friends are using a behringer X32 - no problems with windows pc - streaming - fogging - no issues…. test it over three days…
Sorry about my englisch its terrible, but I hope you now can place the issue - make a video - burn it on a CD - send it with the Mixer to A & H and claim damages against the company……
Greatings from Germany … Tizian
Hi Tizian,
I’m the product support engineer for the Qu series and I have been working with Christian on this case. I’m sorry to hear the issue is not yet resolved and I want to reassure you that we are still looking into this case for you.
Unfortunately, as we are not able to reproduce this behaviour at A&H, it has not been possible for us to determine the cause, so I cannot say for sure whether your issue is caused by hardware or software with your Qu, or an external event - we just don’t know that yet. What we do know is that there are thousands of units out in the field, and yours is the first case of this kind we have come across.
I must note that the driver crashing and USB-B streaming noise are two separate issues, and we have addressed the streaming issue in the latest firmware (V1.95), however, some optimisation of the PC is still needed, as issues can be caused by power management settings on the PC or conflicting hardware/drivers, which is not something we can control in the Qu firmware or drivers.
We are not trying to sweep anything under the carpet, we have been very open and honest, taken the problem seriously, and the development team have worked tirelessly to find the best solution for all users.
There are some other misunderstandings to address too:
- The USB 3.0 ‘Intel’ issue affects Mac and PC, as Apple have been producing Intel based computers for a number of years.
- USB implementation can indeed be seen as a standard, and they’ve even made their implementation open to other manufacturers, which is one of the reasons this has become such a problem as (by their own admission) their USB 3.0 host controller isn’t fully backwards compatible with the USB 2.0 standard.
- Qu and SQ both use USB 2.0 (as labelled on the socket itself), this is to do with hardware, not something that is changed through firmware.
We are providing as much support and information as possible to help users find the source of their problem, and will continue to work individually with all customers who have experienced any issue, as every system is different.
In your case, I will continue to work with Christian on this, but if you would like to contact support directly, you can do so at support.allen-heath.com or email support@allen-heath.com and we will do our best to help.
Thanks!
Alex
But the simple qustion is: Why don’t have other companies this problem with USB?
I startetd a question in a german forum about this. There are NO PROBLEMS with USB 2 or 3 laptops for example with the Midas M32 or the Behringer X32 and I dindn’t hear until now anything else from other companies.
I must agree Tizian, that it would be fair to inform customers and sellers, that the QU series strongly recommends USB 2 ports. That this is written at the backside means nothing, beacause normaly everybody starts from downcompatibility of USB 3, but thats not reliable, as you told us. Because in the near future nobody will still have USB 2 port PC’s. Thus these QU-mixers are only for people, who don’t need USB-Recording and playback. I had to buy a used Lenovo Thinkpad TP 410 at eBay to get a working solution. My 1100.-€ brandnew highend audio-optimated-laptop does’nt work!
Quite in truth: Do You know similar problems with SQ models? Because, if A&H has working mixers for this option, they must communicate it clearly, so that the buying customer knows, what he get’s. I would change my Qu 16 to a SQ 5, if I could be sure, that this will not have the USB-problem, otherwise I would change to a Midas 32R!