So we are at 12+ years of using an iLive T112 with iDr48 and iDr32 in master/slave config, 9 ME-1’s with MEU, Dante outs for multi-track recording/playback in a fixed install, house of worship.
Looking at replacing it in the near future, 1-2 years.
My question is, is the dLive the only real comparative system to replace it with? I’d like to stay with the A&H environment if at all possible.
Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions.
yes.
A&H is very methodical about their product lineup. The higher end system you go with, the more flexibility and features you will have. It’s not just the number of inputs and busses available either - it’s every feature and setting. Even between the Avantis and DLive systems, there are countless things that are better/more flexible on the DLive system than the Avantis. So yes, the DLive is worth it for all these extra features and flexibility even if you don’t need all the input and buss capacity. Especially now with the RackUltra FX card, the DLive system really stands out far and away as being the best choice.
I feel so strongly about this that personally I would go with a surfaceless DLive system before I settled for an Avantis or lower end system. In fact that is exactly what I have done. I moved from an Avantis to a surfaceless DLive system and don’t regret my decision one bit. I absolutely would make the same decision again.
I should clarify that having a Surface with the DLive system is clearly the best choice. However the Surface isn’t actually required and it’s usually the more expensive part of the DLive system. So if budget constraints prevent you from affording both a MixRack and a Surface, I would recommend going without a Surface before I settled for an Avantis. For example, if your budget is 10-15k, I would get a DLive Mixrack without a Surface before I bought an Avantis or Avantis Solo.
In my situation, I use DLive Director as well as the third party app “Mixing Station” to interact with the Mixrack. Using Mixing Station allows me to easily integrate a Waves Fit Controller motorized Midi controller, so I actually do have physical faders, buttons, and encoders to mix with. Again, it’s not as nice as having a Surface, but given the fact that I spend less than 1/10th the cost of even the smallest Surface, it was the right choice for my situation.
Thanks Brian. If it was just me mixing all the time, I would have no issue going without a surface for a while. However, the others that share the operation duties are not really computer savvy enough to handle that type of install.
If a full DLive system with Surface is out of the budget, and you can’t reasonably go without a Surface, then I think the Avantis is a great choice. I would recommend getting the DPack addon however. While not inexpensive, it really is nice to have all those plugins available “in the desk” instead of using outboard plugins. About the only plugin I felt was missing from the Avantis DPack was pitch correction (which the DLive now has with the RackUltra FX card).
Also, I think you will find that you will be almost required to purchase the GX4816 stagebox with the Avantis - especially if you want to continue to use the ME monitors with the new console (because the GX4816 has a ME port built into it). Outside of the single SLink port on the Avantis, there is no way to connect ME units directly to the console without using a GigaAce I/O card. This means if you use the SLink port for the ME system, you can’t connect anything else to the console without purchasing additional I/O cards (like a GigaAce card). By using the GX4816, you can connect it via the Avantis SLink port, connect the ME units to the stagebox, and still be able to connect up to two more DX boxes (or a single DX32 box) to the GX4816 as well. That’s a lot of flexibility and expandability built into a single stage box.
As I eluded to, there are some features missing from the Avantis (when compared to the DLive). This isn’t supposed to be a complete comparison, but some of the big things that stick out to me is that the scene recall filter system is not a granular as the DLive, nor does it have “actions”, both of which makes automation much easier. While there is the Avantis Director software available, you can only run a single instance of it, and it has to share the layouts that the board has (ie you can’t design/use different layers on the software instance). This is less of a problem since Mixing Station supports the Avantis, but it is something to be aware of. Because the DLive allows multiple Surfaces to be connection, you can have multiple instances of DLive Director running, and the layers can be completely different from each other or other physical Surfaces.
Don’t get me wrong, the Avantis is a fine system. I used it for years before finally making the jump to the DLive system.
While I have never actually mixed on an SQ system, I honestly think I would find it be annoyingly limited in its feature set after being spoiled by the Avantis and DLive. The scene recall filter system on the SQ is barely useable (it offers almost no granularity), it currently only supports one show file on the console at a time, the amount of devices/software you can connect to the system is limited to 8 instances (bad if you want your musicians mixing their own monitors using software), and the buss system is not very flexible so it can quickly become a hard limitation depending on your needs, which invariably change overtime.
I’m happy to discuss specifics with you. You can always DM me.
Thanks Brian. It’s not that the dLive is out of our budget, as it isn’t. I was just wanting to make sure I wasn’t missing something with a newer system is all.
We have a slightly more than a “standard” install for our area, though I"m sure we are not as complicated as others.
We originally installed with a single iDr32 rack and have expanded beyond that over the years, adding a iDr48 into a master/slave config, adding Dante for Multi track recording and playback, upgrading the old Aviom IE system to the ME-1’s with MEU switch, connections for live streaming, click tracks, etc…
I’m looking to setup DM48 back stage for majority of our wired inputs and mains outputs, MEU connection. Then have 2 DX168’s in the booth for the remaining wireless inputs and some AUX outputs, Dante connections(with M-DL-ADAPT cards to repurpose our existing Dante cards). Also looking to use either a S5000 or C3500 for a surface.
As much as my predecessor pushed for a new digital system to replace our analog Soundcraft board years ago, it didn’t happen until we had a new WD(that’s when we got the iLive in 2012). He’s now gone and our current WD is nearing retirement. Our Technical administrator seems to be all about keeping the video upgraded and current but seems to be ignoring the audio…
IIRC, there’s not a huge price difference between the S5000 and S7000. We ended up augmenting our S5000 with an IP8… arguments could be made that in some ways it’s better to have both — I might even agree with some of them — but if the difference in cost is still as small as it was when we got our system, I’d recommend spending the extra money on the S7000 over the S5000 just because you said you’re using ME-1s for monitors and with an S7000 you’ll be able to get 36 of 40 monitor channels on one layer instead of 28 of 40. I’m sure a couple of those 40 channels will be things like ambients or talkbacks or other things that aren’t band channels and won’t need to be adjusted much, so that’ll likely get all your monitor channels on one layer and simplify things for whoever’s running sound.
When we were researching consoles, we looked at the S7000, but we just don’t physically have the space for it. Even for the S5000 it would be a tight fit.
Oh! Yeah, “it won’t fit” is pretty hard to argue with 