Duplicating Track for FOH / MON: Strip Assign Not Working

SQ SQ General Discussions
1

Hey there — I’m sure this is something simple, and I’ve seen similar questions posted before, but I haven’t been able to find a clear answer that fits what I’m trying to do.

I’d like to duplicate several inputs onto one of our blank layers (D or E) for monitor-only use — specifically for our stage ME-1 personal mixers.

Here’s what I’ve tried:
I went through the Strip Assign screen to add and activate channels, but nothing happens when I tap on an empty strip to assign something new. It only lets me add from what’s already listed above. When I drag, say, Local Input 18 (Acoustic Guitar) down to a blank strip, it just duplicates that existing channel — same controls, same routing, same processing — rather than creating a new, independent version.

What I’m hoping to do is create a second instance of that same input on Layer D that shares the same input source, but is only routed to the ME-1s. That way, we can apply separate EQ, compression, etc., for stage monitoring without affecting the FOH mix.

In other words, I don’t want a duplicate of the same channel — I want a separate copy that receives the same input feed but can be processed and routed independently.

I’ve read through the A&H manual but can’t seem to find a straightforward explanation for how (or if) this can be done. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated!

2

It is covered in the manual. This task is so simple, I’m stumped…

3

What I have done is patch multiple input channels (I.e. Ip5, Ip7, etc.) to the same input socket. That way the same input socket feeds different input channels/sliders, so you can do whatever you want with the same input.

Where I use this is on my CD player, so I have a slider/stereo pair, and a mono input channel connected to just the Left CD input. That way when I have a CD that has Left channel, music only, & the Right channel is music + singing, I can easily select what I am playing through the system.

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4

Or perhaps to add:
For every additional independent processing/routing of an input channel, you need another free input channel.
For example, you could patch your local input 18 additional to input channel 28 and position this on Layer D.

sq181
sq1811234×1000 95.5 KB

Or:
sq182
sq182774×688 51.7 KB

5

You are not quite understanding how the fader layers work.

The fader layers just group channels, groups, mixes, matrices etc. into a specific order. They do not ‘create’ new instances.

We have configured our fader layers to achieve specific ‘jobs’. We normally operate with fader layer ‘F’. However, for specific groups (e.g. the drums) I have added these to another layer.

You have a fixed number of channels. Period. You can patch (say) a guitar into two (2) channels and use one channel for one job and the other channel for another job. You can then assign the two individual channels to two different fader layers for specific jobs.

However, you really need to look at your workflow (in my opinion) if you have to do this. It should be an exception rather than a rule (but that is only my opinion of course).

You can link parameters on the two individual channels together, so that a change in one channel also affects the other.

Dave

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6

I missed the (significant) bit about the ME-1…

Your use case for this may be valid. However, the down-sides are:

  1. You reduce the number of individual input channels that are available on the SQ due to doubling up (one input source feeding two input channels).
  2. The desk engineer still has to be responsible for adjusting the parameters of the channels feeding the ME-1’s.

But your use of a dedicated layer is valid for this ‘job’ of grouping all of the ME-1 channels together.

We are going through a similar process at the moment, but are trying to persuade our Worship Group to be happy with a specific global take-off point from each channel. This has the drawback of changing FOH changes the ME-1 signal as well. We will see what we ultimately settle on…

Dave

7

Then you have to create a duplicate CHANNEL for each and every source. This means if your FOH kick is channel 1, you have to double patch the source to a second independent channel (let’s say channel 25 in this example) and call it something like “ME Kick” or *Kick (using a symbol to differentiate your duplicated channels saves precious label space).

Then on your layer setup, you’ll pull channel 1 AND channel 25 onto the surface to get what you are looking for.

You’ll have to duplicate your channels like that for every source that you want independent FOH and monitor control for. Obviously the FOH channels are only routed to the PA and the monitor channels are only routed to the ME system.

8

Got it, thank you for the clarification. I had been told by someone else that you could duplicate instances of a physical input on the board and change it’s output, but obviously that was incorrect.

it seems that a simple fix would be for Allen and Heath to offer individual channel processing on the ME… even if it’s just a basic three band EQ like the global settings.. I’m sure that would be a major overhaul, but it would definitely be useful in our case.

9

You can “pick off” the audio of a channel in a variety of points along the channel’s audio path and send that audio to a different source (like the ME system) via “direct outs”. This “pick off” setting is called the “Global Direct Out Source”. However there is only one gate, one EQ, one compressor, etc for each channel, so you can’t have different EQs for example. If you really need two independent processing paths, then you will need to use two different channels (each with their own gate, EQ, compression settings, etc).

Let me give you an example of what this means in practical terms….. If you can live with the FOH gate and EQ settings, but don’t want any compression on the monitor channels, you can do this without duplicating channels. You would just select “Post EQ” for the Global Direct Out Source pick point and the direct out audio would include the channel’s processing through the EQ portion of the channel’s processing path, but not include anything after the EQ processing - which means no channel compression or delay processing would be heard in the direct out audio.

Look at page 126 of the SQ firmware reference guide for a block diagram that shows the various Global Direct Out Source pick points that are available. I only used the “Post EQ” option in my example, but there are about 7 different places along the channel’s audio path where you can pull the audio out to send to the ME system. (Post preamp, post high pass filter, post gate, post insert, post EQ, post compressor, and post delay).

FYI - this is a “global” setting which means that it is the same for every channel. Unfortunately you cannot change this pick point on a “per channel” basis. That would be really helpful, but it simply isn’t available (on any A&H console including the DLive).

EDIT - I will add that using the channel’s EQ settings for both FOH and IEM shouldn’t really be a stumbling block. In my mind, channel EQ is designed to fix issues with the source. Issues with sources affect all audio paths the same and therefore any EQ corrections would be applicable to both the FOH and ME channels (and any other audio destination).

On the other hand, if you then need to do some more EQ to fix issues with “the room” or some other problem, then these EQ changes need to be done at a different point in the audio chain. Fixing issues with “the room” should be done on the PA output or speaker processing unit for example. Similarly, ringing out a wedge monitor with EQ should be done on that wedge’s output. Or for example, if this is a corporate event and you have lots of LAV mics or other speaking mics that need to be wrung out, all of the same make/model mic should be added to a single group and the EQ for ringing them out done on that group. Not only does this keep the channel audio “clean” for monitor or broadcast use, it also makes ringing out the mics much easier because it is done in one location vs having to adjust every different lav channel for example.

Long story short, IMHO you really shouldn’t have to EQ your channels differently for FOH and ME use if you are solving problems with EQ at the “correct/appropriate” processing stage.

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