DX168 VS GX4816

SQ SQ General Discussions
1

Hello!

I currently have an SQ6, along with two DX168 stage boxes.

I am considering upgrading to the Avantis, but was curious on if it would be beneficial to upgrade to the GX4816, or if I should continue to use my two DX168 boxes?

Is there an audible difference between the DX168 and GX4816? That would be the only reason I would upgrade boxes.

I understand that the GX4816 would allow an additional 16 input channels, but that isn’t really needed for my situation, as most of the local events and bands I provide for, require less that 32.

Now, with that being said, is there even much of an audible difference between the SQ and Avantis?

Thank you!

2

Hi dave,

One little thing: be aware, that the network connection between 2 DX Stageboxes (in Daisy-Chain mode) will introduce some latency between them. This “can” be a noticeable, e.g. in some stereo Recording scenario, where 2 microphones are placed at exactly the same position like XY, or small AB an connect one of them to DX1 and the other to DX2. Then you can get a slightly move of the localisation, because of the delay time between the two mics.
Greetings,
dd

3

IMO there is no sonic improvement in the D-Live pres used in the DX168 expansion box and the actual pres that come with a D-Live. I am not aware of the precise pre amps the GX48 is fitted out with: however “Prime I/Os” are the only pres that offer sonic improvement and it is not very likely they would ever be part of a GX48 package. IMO a DX hub is advisable if more than one DX expansion box is used: there is no published data that I have found indicating latency issues when a DX hub is deployed.
Hugh

4
Is there an audible difference between the DX168 and GX4816?

No, they sound the same. I use both, and sometimes use them together on the same gig.

The only real advantage outside of an obvious higher channel count would be the ability to use the ME personal mixers with the GX4816 since it has a port that can run them. That is not possible on the DX168.

Now, with that being said, is there even much of an audible difference between the SQ and Avantis?

Again No. I run dLive, Avantis, and SQ and they all sound fantastic. It would be very difficult to hear the difference between them, when run on the same high quality speaker system. There is however a noticeable difference over Qu or GLD, but it’s only a minor difference, as those also sound really good. The 96KHz units have that extra depth to them that is noticeable when compared to the earlier 48KHz consoles.

I choose to use the SQ5 on a lot of gigs simply because of its small and convenient form-factor.

5

Thank you all for the incredible information! Everyone helped me out a ton!

6

I hope you don’t mind me asking this question on this post.
I hired my PA which included a gx4816 stage box which works 100% with my own sq6 and sq5.
However the sound engineer wanted to use his own sq5. No problem , but, when he connected the cat5 the symbol in the top right corner showed it had connected , but the processing did not see gains or send phantom on a his scene.
He said he had his dx168 in his van, and voila, using the same cat5, when we connected to his dx168 all worked.
Can anyone shed any light on why this may have happened. I suspect it is a setting on the desk. ( I could be wrong )

7

I am guessing that his SQ5 was upgrading/downgrading the firmware on your GX4816 and you didn’t give it enough time to finish.

Another possibility, is that yours is newer hardware with some component changes, and he could have been running an older non-compatible firmware version on his SQ.

8

Thanks again Scott for your reply.
It turns out my clients SQ5 had not had updates for a few years so it must be that.

9

Did we ever get clarification on whether the pre-amps are the same between a DX168 and GX4816? Does the GX4816 come with the same dLive pre-amps? I see there is some speculation in this thread, but do we have facts/documentation from Allen & Heath?

10

Keith clarified the DX pre question two months ago in response to my inquiry pursuant to the analog M-Ain 8 channel pre-amp banks for a DX32. "ALL DX & GX pres are D-Live pres: however the “PRIME” I/Os are uniquely designed to deliver a new world standard in detail and transparency. The improved performance comes with a 400% increase in price (D-Live pres $87.per channel vs Primes $350. per channel) Street price points verify the uniformity: a pair of Analog M-AIN pre 8 channel banks are $1,400. with an 8 channel bank of M-AOUT outputs @ $500 you are exactly at the $1,899 street price of a DX168.

Scott mentioned the primary advantage oF a GX4816: ME monitoring can be generated direct on stage thru the GX4816!
Hugh

2 Likes
11

I’ve upgraded recently from old Qu to Qu5D/DX168 for live gigging and am impressed by the “sound” of DX168 preamps/ADC.

I did a 1st test recording (96k stream via Qu-drive) in my acoustically treated home studio - a 13 ch session (dr, bs, org, gt, voc) with good mikes and amp shields for the Leslie and guitar amp to get some 96k audio material for experimenting / mixing with Qu5D and deep plug ins.

I got a very satisfying audio quality, clear, good transients, nice stereo image (esp. drums/overheads, KM184) and there was no noticable noise, our soft background talking somewhere in the room was well captured by the open mics (esp. overheads) very clearly and noiseless.

So I’m very interested in the question of this thread, too: how does A&H pres/DACs compare to my studio preamps/ADC (RME Octamic, RME Fireface 802, Audient ASP 880, SPL Goldmic …)?

If DX168/Qu5D could hold up with them I’d prefer the workflow with Qu5D as interface for some studio recordings, too (faders, easy aux monitoring etc.) over working with a mouse on screens …

So I hope to find some time soon for A/B recording to compare the results (recording via A&H DX vs. via my studio preamps/DAC …

It’s a pitty that there’s no easy way to integrate my studio pres digitally into Qu5D (via ADAT) … But maybe it could be worth comparing DX168 pres also vs RME/Audient just as analog pre’s into Qu5D and into DX186 (ADC by A&H)

To compare everything under valid condotions won’t be easy at all and will take some time … maybe I should use my analog splitters, but there could be a slight difference between original and split signal, too … so I’d have to record everything twice with changing the splitter snakes, too … :see_no_evil_monkey::exploding_head:

Groovy greetings from Germany :waving_hand:t2:

12

The greatest benefit of the GX4816 isn’t the preamps (as they are the same quality as most of the preamps being used in A&H devices today). It’s the huge amount of I/O that the box supports due to its use of the GigaAce connection. It’s the only stage box in the A&H lineup currently that uses the GigaAce 128x128 audio protocol.

Because of the GigaAce connection, not only do you get the 48 inputs and 16 outputs built into the box, but you also get the ability to connect another 2x DX32s or 4x other DX stage boxes daisy chained off the GX4816. Using 4 DX168 boxes for example provides another 64 inputs and 32 outputs (for a total of 112 inputs and 48 outputs, plus whatever I/O is available in the console itself) - all without requiring any additional connections, I/O cards, hubs, etc.

[Infomercial Voice]But wait….. there’s more…… [/voice] :laughing:
You also get the ability to integrate the ME Personal Monitor devices into the system by using one of the DX ports on the GX4816. Of course this means that you only have one DX port available to daisy chain DX devices to (cutting the maximum potential I/O capacity), but having the ability to add ME to a console without requiring another I/O card is HUGE. This is especially true with the Avantis because the only other way you can connect an ME system to the Avantis is to use the built in S-Link port - which means it’s not available for use with other stageboxes, etc. (This is because there are no SLink I/O cards available for the Avantis like there are with the SQ). By using the GX4816, you get all this I/O plus the ability to use the ME system - all from the built in SLink port on the Avantis which means your I/O ports are free to be used for other things like Dante, Waves, MADI, etc.

Long story short, if you expect to use the ME system with the Avantis, utilizing the GX4816 is the easiest (and probably the cheapest) solution that gives you both the needed I/O (because 12 inputs and 12 outputs on the console likely isn’t enough) and the ability to connect ME devices.

13

Wouldn’it be time to introduce a 96kHz ME system that could be daisychaned with DX168

and

a ME Dante 96kHz?

This could be very interesting for lots of musicians ans bands who normally use handy SQ or 96kHz Qu (small footprint on stage) with DX and for whom a GX6416 would be oversized …

14

… so if 96kHz ME would use GigaAce 128x128 audio protocol with the possibility to daisylink 2 DX168, this could be a great option for many bands / musicians who use SQ/newQu/DX systems (and good for A&H not to lose clients to Beringer and other systems …)