Can someone explain the difference between the different ports? (dSnake, sLink, Monitor, Expander) I am looking to purchase an Avantis.
Does this setup work?
Mixer → AR2412 and then I also want to have an AR84 and AB168 on the platform. Do I need the DX hub? Which ports do I use to hook everything up?
Thanks!
If you want to use the AR2412, you can have one AB168 connected to the expander port of the 2412, giving a total of 40 inputs on that S-Link port. (or a max of 32 if you use a AR84 instead of the AB168)
If you want more ports you need to get an expantion card like the S-Link or Dante
Or you can use 2 DX168 chained to 32 inputs, and expand that setup using the DX-Hub for up to 4 x 2 DX168 total 128 inputs to patch from.
This guide doesn’t seem to show the latest items, or maybe they just aren’t compatible. Are the AR boxes compatible with the DX expander? It shows that the AR84, for example, is compatible with the Avantis. I am just not sure how to hook it up.
-Basically, I want the mixer at the back of the room in the mix position.
-Then an AR2412 behind the stage with all of the more permanent items plugged in.
-Then on the stage I want a 16-ch (AB168) and an 8-ch (AR84) stage box on the platform so that the on-stage instruments can plug in as needed.
Does this work? How would I hook it up? I am guessing it would go:
Mixer → DX expander
__DX1 - AR2412
__DX2 - AB168
__DX3 - AR84
No you can not use the DX and the AR/AB on the same port.
It is either AR/AB with AR2412+AR84 OR AR2412+AB168 if you want to go that way.
OR
2 x DX168 cascade connected if you have no DX hub
or
4 x 2 DX168 if you have the DX hub.
They can not be mixed on the same port.
Steine answered your general question. The short answer is that you can connect the AR2412 directly to the SLink port on the Avantis and then connect an AR84 or AB168 directly to the AR2412 via the available port on the stage box.
I’ll just add that the older 48k devices like the AB/AR stage boxes use an older A&H audio protocol that is not the same protocol as the newer DX stage boxes (which run at 96k). Therefore you cannot daisy chain the 48k stage boxes directly to the 96k stage boxes or vice versa. This means you cannot connect a DX168 directly to a AR2412 like you can a AB168. It also means that you cannot plug any AR/AB devices into a DX expander or GigaAce port because the audio protocols don’t match.
Now you can use the two types of boxes on the same console at the same time, but you have to have a different connection between the stage boxes and the console. For example, you could plug in your AR/AB stage boxes into the SLink port on the Avantis and then get a DX expansion card to plug the DX stage boxes into.
Hopefully that is helpful to you and not confusing!
OK, thanks all for the info. I also realized that I will need either Dante or Waves card to do virtual soundcheck and to multitrack record. So with that in mind, would this scenario work?
Dante card → DT168
Mixer S-Link port → AR2412 → AB168
And this might be another topic, but with the Dante card, I know there are a lot of 3rd party Dante devices. I don’t know a lot about it to be honest. But are there any other Dante stage boxes that could work, or do I need to use Allen and Heath boxes?
Thanks!
That would work.
With Dante, you are free to use whatever Dante devices you want (regardless of brand). HOWEVER, if you use A&H stage boxes you will have control over the preamps (ie gain setting, pad, polarity, etc) in the console like a normal stage box. Unfortunately, if you use another brand’s stage box these preamp settings will not be available on the console and you will have to interact with those preamps using whatever software the stage box manufacture has provided for that purpose. Therefore I would recommend using A&H Dante stage boxes over any other brand stage boxes. The inconvenience of having to use a different computer/software to control your non-A&H preamps is not worth any savings you might get by buying another brand’s stage boxes. Please note, this really only applies to “stage boxes” or devices with a high number of built in preamps. Devices that don’t have preamps built into them (and there are plenty of Dante devices without preamps) will work just fine and won’t have this limitation.
This occurs because while Dante has defined a protocol for the audio transport, it has not defined any particular protocol for preamp control. This means that every manufacture has to add their own preamp control data “on top” of the Dante audio data, and devices from different manufacturers only recognize the data from their manufacture’s devices.
PS - if you are only looking for multi-track recording (or want to use Waves plugins), I actually think Waves is a better solution because you can record up to 128 channels at full 96k without getting more hardware/licenses outside of your Waves card. With Dante, you actually have to buy a license/device for the recording side of things. Dante Virtual Soundcard (DVS) is the cheapest option, but it is limited to 64 channels at 96k. To get a higher channel count, you will need to spend a lot more money and either get the new DVS Pro subscription, or a hardware device that supports the higher channel count.
EDIT - this actually reminds me to say that if you want to use Dante for multitrack recording, you definitely should purchase an A&H Dante card with a higher I/O count than the number of channels you currently want to record. Honestly if you expect to use 48ish channels or more on the Avantis, I would recommend getting the 128x128 Dante card. This is because you will likely end up wanting to utilize Dante for more than just multitrack record. If you are recording 48 channels and only have the 64x64 Dante card, that only leaves you 16 spare Dante channels for other uses (like running plugins as inserts on certain channels/busses, etc). Or if you only have the 64x64 Dante card, you are using all 64 channels on the console and want to multitrack record all those channels, then you won’t have any capacity to do other things.
Of course if you want the ability to connect other devices to the A&H system, Dante certainly provides a MUCH larger pool of compatible devices than Waves. There are plenty of Dante devices that don’t have preamps in them, and therefore it really doesn’t matter what brand of Dante device you use.
Just something to think about…
Also, I would just remind you about the GX4816 stagebox. I would recommend it over using Dante stage boxes. I don’t know your exact I/O needs, but you may find the GX4816 has enough to work without using any other stage boxes. However if you need to expand with more I/O, you can connect up to 4 DX boxes (like the DX168) to the GX4816 (ie without having to use another port on the console). The GX4816 also has a ME port on it in case you ever want to explore the ME Personal Monitor system from A&H. Outside of connecting the ME units directly to the built in SLink port on the console, it is the easiest way to connect MEs to the Avantis. (Just keep in mind that if you need the ME port, you will be limited to adding just two DX boxes instead of four.
Honestly in your case, I would consider selling the AR/AB boxes and replacing them with the GX4816. After selling those boxes, I think the GX4816 would net out to be less money vs sticking with the older boxes and purchasing a DT box. It will really give you more flexibility in the long run too.
This is all great info, thank you.
In terms of Dante multitrack recording, are you saying that if have a 64x64…
-16 of those channels go to stage box (16/16 i am guessing, in and out)
-So that leaves 48/48 for multitracking, is that right? 48 out to multitrack software, and then 48 back in for virtual soundcheck.
-And then I am not sure I understand the plugins and inserts part of it. Can you expand on that a bit more, as to how Dante is part of that loop?
First, I didn’t even consider the Dante stage box I/O requirements in my examples above. You are correct however that the stage box I/O will use the available Dante card I/O. So if you have a DT168, you will use up 16 inputs and 8 outputs on the console’s Dante card. That means that with a 64 channel console Dante card, you can only multitrack 56 channels (assuming you are using all 8 outputs on the DT168). Any other Dante device that you want to connect to the console may use up the available I/O of the console’s Dante card too. This is why it is not uncommon to need/want a 128x128 Dante card even on a console that only supports 64 processing channels.
My example talked about using “plugins” as inserts. This is when you want to send your channel/buss audio out to a processor that is hosting plugins/FX and then return that audio back after receiving the processing changes. Based on your response, it is clear that this isn’t a current need, but it is something you may find yourself wanting to do in the future. You will need 1 Dante Input and 1 Dante Output available for every unique channel/buss that you want to send to an effects processor. You won’t need to send every channel to an FX processor, but often times people want to send their vocal channels or other sources, or sometimes their busses (like Main LR mix, etc) to an FX processor.
What I have done with the Avantis currently in use:
S-link - AR2412 expander port to AB168
GigaAce card - GX4816
Allows for the flexability of inputs in different areas.