Is one way communication with DAW possible?

Qu Qu DAW Integration
1

I don’t know if I am using the right terminology, but this is what I am asking.

Basically
I need a multi track recording using USB-B connection with PC.
For DAW I use Cakewalk by bandlab,
Official QU16 ASIO driver is installed on Windows 10 desktop.

As for DAW (Cakewalk)
I am able to add audio tracks
I am able to specify tracks that need to be recorded
I am able to record tracks
I am able to export tracks to wav file
After export I am able to listen to wav file

BUT
I cannot monitor the feed
I cannot hear playback

I searched up the internet,
common issue was bitrate so I straightened it, but no luck
Device settings
Driver settings
All of them no luck

Then I noticed in the cakewalk
That I am unable to route the output signal to PC (realtek stuff)
The only output options that are available are QU channels
Same thing happens in the playback settings,
There are no options to send the playback signals to PC.
Only QU channels.

I tried various computers and came up with same results.
So this is my temporary conclusion
That QU blocks all the communications within the PC.
Only DAW to QU, QU to DAW options exist.

It seems like
There needs to be an option
To allow QU to DAW communications
and block DAW to QU communications

DAW needs to route signal to PC to monitor
But once QU is connected
It blocks all these possibilities
And hogs all the communications with PC to itself.

Hope my explanation makes sense / or at least understandable.

Any help?

2

ASIO devices get blocked by pro audio software
and if you are using a pro audio app with a mixer like the QU you easily can monitor through the QU

3

Hey thanks for the help
But I am not sure I understand, can you give a little more detail please?
I’ve been in the business for a long time, but this DAW thing is still pretty new to me.

4

I have to be more precise…
the ASIO device is exclusive used by the audio software and the audio software will only use the ASIO interface for it’s purposes
to route audio to different devices inside the PC you have to ask the Cakewalk guys what to do
I think the easiest way would be to connect your speakers to the QU

5

Very simple answer. Thank you very much!
I am trying other DAW softwares

6

@QUality

The problem is your DAW and pc driver not the Qu.
And I note one way recording is very easy with any of them.
But you want to ALSO send out which makes things two way not one way.

I vaguely recall that I had used a DAW that let me record 2 channels while also listening to it.
The problem may be the large number of channels you have so the DAWs you used do not allow it to stop overloading the pc ability.

7
Very simple answer. Thank you very much! I am trying other DAW softwares

they will all be the same in this

there are possibilities to handle your wish, but I didn’t suggest them in the first place since these add more complexity to the system

So why not connect your speakers to the QU for monitoring?
Did you understand what I mean with this?

8

You are correct that all the other products being the same.
I tried pro tools, studio one, all of them free versions but they were the same.
Cakewalk had the most detailed settings in my opinion actually.

But, like you said, they were all the same. No playback.
and I have live situation going on while doing multi track recording, so I wouldn’t add too much complexity.
I don’t mind complexity, but I am very short on time until the show so…

and yes, I did understand your suggestion on monitoring with QU
it seems like multi channels on pc are only affected by the gain settings and not others including faders, gate, EQ, even compressor.
So I think I will monitor them through QU.

9

Hmmmmm this DAW thing still confuses me.
I didn’t think PC (or DAW) does not need to send any information to QU, but I could be wrong.

What I thought was

INPUT:
I get track info from QU and I record them with DAW

OUTPUT:
I don’t need to send signals back QU
but I need to send signals to audio card in the PC

Hence the one way, in my logic, but I guess I didn’t understand the mechanism to the full amount.

=====================================================================================================================================================

@quality

The problem is your DAW and pc driver not the Qu.
And I note one way recording is very easy with any of them.
But you want to ALSO send out which makes things two way not one way.

I vaguely recall that I had used a DAW that let me record 2 channels while also listening to it.
The problem may be the large number of channels you have so the DAWs you used do not allow it to stop overloading the pc ability.

10

@QUality

you are seeing the shortcoming of your pc DAW AND drivers for it

you might find a separate ap to run that would allow what you want to do
but I suspect that it would conflict with the way the DAW driver is written
as they are mostly meant to copy streaming while you listen to it

WHAT opsys are you using

win8 crippled sound and win 10 killed it dead
you might find a linux distro that works okay

11

@quality

you are seeing the shortcoming of your pc DAW AND drivers for it

you might find a separate ap to run that would allow what you want to do
but I suspect that it would conflict with the way the DAW driver is written
as they are mostly meant to copy streaming while you listen to it

WHAT opsys are you using

win8 crippled sound and win 10 killed it dead
you might find a linux distro that works okay

===========================================================

I am starting to think that these are the things make people to migrate to Mac.
This particular system is with Win 10,
with on board soundcard and cannot afford seperate audio interface due to some financial conflicts.
Not to mention linux is out of the option due to internal problem of this facility.

If there was a way
to convert the input ASIO signal to WDM
and route it back to cakewalk for listening it would have been possible
but it seems like no DAW supports this kind of function.

I can use the QU for monitor
but that’s possible because I will be doing the live show as well as multi recording.
How will people do it if they have a separate personnel to do live show and recording?
Is it really a thing with PC?

You also mentioned that I might find a separate app. do you happen to know any?
I use an app called virtual cable from voicemeeter to help out youtubers to direct sound from various places to OBS.

12

@quality (nice name :slight_smile: ),

With Windows, ASIO drivers allow a direct connection between the application and the hardware, as opposed to WDM where the Windows system is acting as an intermediary.
Generally you would use a single audio device with your DAW, and although there are some ways around this with third party software, we would always recommend using the Qu as the centre point in order to keep all routing and monitoring in one place. This will mean you can use the same headphones/speakers to monitor both the live signals and any playback/monitoring from the DAW.

The following article describes a multitrack record + stereo return setup - https://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1142
We also ran a facebook live session on this exact topic a few months ago which you might find useful - Studio setup with Qu | Want to set-up your Qu in the studio and get the most out of it? Join Alex and Keith, live at 3PM UK time. | By ALLEN & HEATH | Facebook

Cheers,
Keith.

13

@QUality

just record and edit later. if you dont clip you wont have any problems.
then you can focus on diddling the live show to taste.

yes winDOZE has no interest in audio as their focus is toys for kiddies playing games on media sites.

I think it was DAK that was selling the ap that would free up win10 so you could use realtek again.
About 10-20USD.

I am skeptical that it would really work as it is probably done in china and another of their sort of works some of the time aps that I have suffered with when they were bundled with specialty hardware (non audio) devices like measuring your spo2 levels in RT while you sleep. If the chinese actually learned about quality and UI/UX and how to develop software like professionals they would rule the world quickly.

14

@quality
I did a lot of multi track live recording in the past with different consoles (but never a QU) and I am using a Windows 10 laptop (Lenovo) with Reaper and the audio interface of the mixing console. I never needed to hear on the PC what i do record. setup the routing and arm the tracks on the DAW and, most important, do not forget to press record right before the show starts. reaper will write single wave files for each track with the same starting time, so they can easily be imported in any other DAW.
When I am back at home I can do what I want with the recordings. I can mix it on the DAW (seldom) or use it to play back the tracks to a console, the same or a different one, no matter, to mix it on the console for training, VSC or simple mixdown.
So why do you want a possibility to hear the output of the DAW during recording?

BTW: I used also a Mac Book Pro for recording in the past. But Apple tends to ignore the needs of their audio related customer more and more, I now work only with windows and my MBP lies in the storage. I had difficulties with Dante and the SQ with my Mac and so the decision was quite easy for me. BUt everybody is free to make their own experiences.

15

@QUality

Just what is it that you really NEED to do?

Like @Mfk0815 and others noted you can record just fine without listening to it and then edit later.

You say that you are new with using DAW. Are you also new with digital and how it is different from analog?
There is no need to listen to the recording as it is being made. Edit it later. If you dont clip there is no problem.
You do not have to listen to push the signal to the max, rather you want a generous (at least 18dB) extra headroom with digital.

16

I don’t mean any offense to any of you guys out there who tried to help me but

Just because I said I am rather new to DAW thing, it does not mean I do not have any knowledge about it.
Call me old school but I like to have things ready for every cases and every scenario possible.
I’ve worked in many situations, learned and decided that I need to be prepared,
because people will think and do all kinds of stuff to mess things up.

Yes I know you don’t HAVE TO HAVE a live monitor for digital mix on the computer
Yes I know I can monitor these specific channels through QU
Yes I know I can edit later
Yes I know it is ok as long as it does not clip
I totally know what you guys are trying to tell me
I already know them
But that’s not how I work
Call me crazy, call me old school, you can call me whatever you want
but I am a bit of a perfectionist myself, and I like to keep it that way.

I’ve already explained what I need to do
It’s ok if it is not doable, just knowing it that it can’t be done on PC is ok as well
or if there is a workaround like keith mentioned, it is good as well

It just seemed pretty straightforward that you need to be able to listen to what you are recording,
Whether you
I guess most of you are mixing and recording on your own,
But things might be different in different world, if you didn’t already know that.
Mixer and recording PC can be 50 feet apart from each other.
Would you still tell the recording guy to monitor from the mixer?

For 20 years of being in this business,
like I said above,
You always have to have everything ready,
You always need to have a backup
Because things that you think it might happen will happen,
and what you can’t even think of will happen as well.

But I am glad to find out
that there are still good friends who are willing to help
and this is not so easy to do with current system

and

@KeithJ A&H

Thank you for your feedback.
Good to know how A&H put it’s philosophy into QU and understand the intensions on it.
I already checked the knowledgebase before you replied,
and I’ve been busy to checkout the workaround, but I sure will check them out.

Thanks guys

17

Hmm, maybe you should ask yourself why all those DAWs do not provide such a function as you want, recording multitrack from one device and listen the stereo mix from another. If this would be a highly demanded feature I am quite sure that some or all DAWs would support it. And I am also quite old school, I started multitrack recording with a Fostex B16. Also back in those days I used the recording mixer for both, the inputs and the returns, similar as I am doing it now with digital mixers and DAWs.
It would also be nice to tell at least me the advantages of your approach. Why it should not work if you send back the DAW monitor to QU and pass it to the monitor system of the recording guy? Are you running out of channels/busses in that case? And what can this guy do if there is any problem observed by him? Can he for instance jump on the stage to adjust the misplaced microphone? And why this misplacing is not observed by the FOH guy?
Don‘t get me wrong, I want to know more about your intentions because I love to learn new aspects of this job in any way.

18

@QUality

regarding your last post… hmm it is still the wrong place to ask this and to ignore the first advice is also not helpful

19

@SteffenR,

I am not ignoring any advises, I just want to be clear on that.
I guess I was stressed but basically,
What I wanted was pretty simple.

If this can be done, I wanted to know. if so, how it can be done.
If this can’t be done, I wanted to know. if not, future possibilities.

You all helped me out on this and I am very grateful, and I want to say thanks for everything.
No hard feelings and no offense to anyone.

But as this stuff gets deeper I couldn’t help getting this feeling
That says ‘why do you HAVE TO HAVE that?’ ‘You don’t need that’
and when it reached there, I was a little uncomfortable.
Of course I could have misinterpreted the intention and I want to apologize if I did.

but to give a little more details on the facility that I am working,
This particular facility is non government, non charity organization that seriously lacks financial support.
QU 16 is probably the most recent and one of the most expensive equipment on this facility.
Everything else is made up of donations, giveaways and so called put-together stuffs.
and yet, there has to be a bilingual live show that requires 2 track recording as well as multitrack recording.

you might want to ask so many questions upto this point
Let’s just say they lack of finances and staff members as well as time, full of workloads, and seriously lack of tech staffs, and let’s just leave it at that.
They all have their own way of working things out, and me trying to explain things just doesn’t work.
It also does not help that I am not the head of this facility to be able to say ‘let’s just do it my way’
So I ended up coming up with all these crazy ideas and had to ask here for some help.
Heck, I have one live show, and doing 4 different recordings on one show, with all junkyard equipment
because everyone wanted things in slight different way.
so yeah, it is not the tech problem, but it is a relationship problem I guess, in a way.

@Mfk0815,

I hope this answers some of your curiosity on my situations.
Not so skilled staffs with crappy machines with fancy ideas. No offense to them either,
But I just have to be really precise, detailed, prepared in this facility
so it was…

hope this helped us to understand better one another.
thanks guys

PS> How to you red underline a specific user? I just copy the name and put @ and , but like you see above, it works sometimes and it doesn’t sometimes.

20

@Quality

I know what I suggested works fine. I do it that way.
It seems that your problem is really you not the gear.
Everybody else seems to manage quite well without listening to your recording on the DAW while it is still recording and is yet still unedited. So why listen at all?? All you need is the visual meter to ensure it is not clipping and that you have some signal. Digital has such a humongous SNR you will still get a great recording at the end if you had one at the mikes.