Most of my work is designing AV systems for school auditoriums. As a longtime fan of AH mixers I started specifying their analogue mixers when they first introduced true LCR panning. I’ve been hoping for more universal support of this in the AH digital mixers especially the SQ series since it is at a good price point for the kind of projects I work on. Unfortunately unless there are enough others requesting this, AH feels the lack of demand does not warrant the effort to update the firmware to include this feature. For dramatic and musical theatre it is the best way to easily localize characters and FX. Since other manufacturers (brand B and P for instance) have this feature I don’t think it would be that difficult for the AH designers to include this on future updates. Hopefully others out there agree and will make their voices heard.
not only other brands have that feature… dLive and Avantis have it as well 
Very true but at a price point much greater than the other brands and the SQ.
Recently I have had to design a few LCR systems in school auditoriums as well, as much as we love the AH ecosystem (usability/routing/etc.) plus the price point for schools, the SQ series would be the best solution… except… there is no LCR. With the GLD being phased out, the only option for an LCR console from AH is out of the price point for a decent amount of our clients. I am requesting this firmware update as it would be an amazing feature to make an already great console even greater!
SQ is a 36 Bus concept
some user wish to have more matrices
and the center will also need a new bus.
We’ll see I’ve A&H is willing the addition and the FPGA has the space for this reorder…
But +1 → would be nice to have in some situations!
I think it would be great if this was added as an option. After all, more options/flexibility is always good.
That being said, I don’t think this feature will ever make it into the SQ lineup. You have to understand that A&H has decided to make the SQ buss architecture fixed. This means the number of aux, groups, matrix, outputs, etc are all fixed and cannot be changed by the user. This is different from the variable architecture of the Avantis and DLive where the user can assign the available busses to any combination of these things until they run out of busses.
So in order to add a center channel to the SQ, it would likely require a buss being reassigned from another function (aux, group, matrix, etc) and given how limited these are already, I don’t think it would be beneficial. In fact, if adding the center channel would in fact reduce one of these other items, I personally would not want that feature added. Of course if they can add it without taking away from an existing buss, or if they made it optional somehow (making the buss configuration user defined for example), then it would be a welcome addition.
That’s just my opinion…
there could be a possible solution for both sides…
reduce the mix count by one,
make the first aux mix a mono one for subwoofer use only (as with the iLive LCR+M) and add the other now available mono bus to the main…
just providing a new role for LCR and additional subwoofer operation
if that makes sense…
I’d certainly find uses for that, and would be happy with (the optional) sacrificing a mix for it.
But, would people then want the groups to be LCR too?
make the first aux mix a mono one for subwoofer use only
but who wants a sub on a aux these days? ??
who wants a sub at all especially for a school auditorium
who even needs LCR for such an application as a school
LCR is a very strong thing when you mix musicals, as you can have all music in LR and primary/solo vocals in C, giving a better vocal “presense” and a subtle nodge for the vocal into the stage. (better vocal placement)
For me the option to change a mix into C would be welcome.
Then as Mark mentions, what about the groups… should they then be LCR as well or merely have a routing into the LCR master, not to look at the matrix busses then.
mixing I could see
but school auditoriums are live
my experience is I am lucky to make out mono clearly in every auditorium I have been in ,
let alone try to to hear anything in stereo
Well I guess we’re all different!
Musicals are live as well, and when you have a venue where you might need to take Haas effect into account, LCR panning is a very useful tool.
yes and the theatres that produce them probably have much better sound systems than most schools or churches or similar places
and when I went to broadway theatres, while rating them plenty good enough, I would not say any of them were really great.
what makes the sound better for one seat may make it worse for another
so again for recording and mixing for a CD LCR could be useful for sure.
I just cant see it in the use case of the OP.
I’d agree that with the GLD phased out, there is ONLY the Avantis and dLive consoles available, that have the routing flexibility to do this. Adding to this, the GLD was RRP $9,934.82 in 2013 (very comparable price to the SQ) but came including all the FX etc)
I too, feel like there is a gap in the range… but A&H probably like it this way so people buy the avantis or dLive at nearly $20k!!!
It feels like a cash grab…
Anyway, enough rambling, a solution to this problem, could be, to simply use a pair of groups or matrices (1x mono & 1x LR) for your LCR setup, yes you will have to unassign or manually some channels from the Centre and visa versa, but this
I would love to see this. Inferior mixers like X/M32 have it. Why not SQ?
Every week there seems to be requests for specific SQ missing options that are readily available on the D-Live and/or Avantis platforms. IMO the large gap between SQ and it’s better endowed A&H siblings can be readily remedied with an alternative processing controller. The operational advantages associated with deploying DX168 or DX32 expansion stage boxes is a no brainer for most of us and to this end a processing controller loaded with most all of D-Lives tactile features and processing would become a “must have” for many of us. This thread deals with missing LCR controls that are very important for theater work, however this is just part of a long list of complaints regarding this or that missing features on the SQ line up that are available on D-Live.
A small footprint SQ5 with it’s 16 input faders X 4 layers offers tactile control for as many as 64 channels simultaneously. With Grouping and DCA’s tactile control of this type of channel count is not a current problem with an SQ5: however a well designed controller should present ample accommodation for managing 64 channels that are captured on stage with the subject expansion stage boxes. The FPGA XCIV core currently offered in the SQ line needs to be up-graded to match the current D-Live/Avantis core processing capabilities in a new processing controller: this would answer the request of many past posts. The current footprint for the SQ5 will answer the vast majority of user channel count needs and reducing the XLR inputs to only those that are essential desk management tools would be a welcome change for many of us.
For me XLR mic inputs on my SQ5 are as useless as tits on a boar hog: the first layer of my SQ5 is a waste given the fact it is dedicated to the internal 16 SQ mic pres that I never use. IMO a small footprint processing controller, like I am describing, would find an enthusiastic market even with an expected higher price tag than the SQ5. The SQ5 is sonically a magnificent world class entry level desk that is probably the most remarkable quality/value desk in the A&H product line. What I am suggesting is a significant up-grade in processing, functional control and efficiency. A&H has opened the door to this component approach with the world class DX168 & DX32 expansion stage boxes and the processing controller I am advocating is a synergistic fit for these high grade components. It is not entry level but a great option for more sophisticated needs.
Hugh
+1 for LCR option, even if it means (when enabling the option) the sacrifice of an aux/group or matrix.
There is a small gap in the audio right at the front of the dance floor in my venue at Stage Centre. I’m contemplating adding a centre fill to address this, but 90% of the time I would only want vocals in this fill so tapping of a mono sum of Main LR at my DSP isn’t an option. LCR would be the perfect solution.
I could work around it using a post fader aux but would need to use a fader for a DCA with Mains and Aux assigned instead of the master, but LCR would be better.
The controlling processor I suggested 5 weeks ago is a pragmatical solution for both the discriminating user and the necessity to protect A&H’s return on their investment in technology advances.
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An ignorant expectation of entry level pricing for flag ship technology will gain zero traction in product design discussions.
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Digital chips have opened the door to offering a fully loaded processing controller device for expansion stage boxes with software that becomes operational with the purchase of special use licenses. This is the existing protocol with the SQ5 and making available all of the D-Live processing without question would be well met in the pro SR market. This would be a game changing design that introduces a real al-la-carte variable menu and bus design for the discriminating SR buyer. The flexibility to be able to add and pay for features as you need them prevents paying for features you do not need or are not willing to pay for.
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Fixed footprint options would be an attractive advantage for most all of us. I would like an 8 fader version that would accommodate up to 24 expansion stage box inputs. IMO the existing SQ5 16 fader version that handles 48 inputs would be a lot more popular and probably have a much bigger market demand. Truth be told the perceived market demand could and would determine all of the optional fixed tactile configurations.
The subject LCR needs and expanders that some folks like to use a lot more than gates, along with a long list of features including better scene management and a comprehensive I-Pad menu that are requested frequently could and should be optional features in a new flexible processing controller.
IMO we have come a long way from the Henry Ford credo: “Give em any G D color they want, as long as it’s Black”
Hugh