In some installations it is required to adjust the output volume.
Sometimes the output volume is already too much, on lower levels.
This is not the same as the speaker level, because I would need the limiter to already be engaged.
Which results in the client seeing a very low VU Meter on certain outputs even though it is already in the desired level, or that it’s not possible to use the limiter function of the speakerprocessing for the limiting, but that the compressor function in the zone processing needs to be used to be able to limit before the speaker max is reached. Or that I have to use the amplifier gains to reach the desired levels, which is not desireable because they can be easily adjusted.
For me it would be ideal as either a form of negative makeup gain on the limiter. Or a post speaker processing/limiter level adjustment.
Is it not up to the installer how to program this? Ie most times it would not be needed to be used, but sometimes there are usecases such as this one, but also when consumer grade products are used which expect -20dbu instead of line level.
The low VU level meter also remains an issue then.
I understand also the better signal to noise ratio.
But that doesnt solve the case for my installations and client where people like to turn knobs. The AHM blocks this.
Would slamming into a limiter to brickwall limit output sound good? Probably not. Lost dynamics are likely to cause complaints. This additional step to set a limiter complicates the setup you’re thinking it’s simplifying. I don’t picture the proposed limiter is set and forget.
How I imagine it would go: users are wondering why the dynamics or output volume aren’t there, so they push up the 2 bus (Master), making it worse as they push harder into a limiter that they may not even know exists. Gain reduction on the amp is likely better overall in my opinion.
Nearly all professional PA setups use limiters for speaker protection.
But establishing another step of gain after the limiter will make the purpose of the limiter senseless. It will overprotect the speaker. Kicking in too early and limiting output without the need…
That’s why some brands of manufacturers of PA systems do this in their system processing inside the dedicated amping.
In smaller installations, there is often no limiter available in the amping and AHM is enabling a general approach to speaker processing. So the speaker protection limiter should be the last step in dynamic level adjustments.
Funny the -20db question was just brought up on the AHM forum by a different user.
My answer was …………………..
“There are various balanced line level to unbalance -10 interfaces. RDL Radio Design Labs has quite a few. The added isolation could be an advantage as well. The drive levels would still be “normal” but stepped down at the interface.”
Nor would I want to slam into a brickwall limiter. That would be an ill setup system.
I understand adjusting the gain would be preferable on the amplifier. However many amplifier would just have a potentiometer on the front. Which are easily adjusted by others.
If the output could be adjusted within the ahm post speaker processing/VU meter it would save that issue.
It is a bit crude to blatantly say lack of knowledge.
I believe you don’t understand what I’m asking, or I’m not conveying my question correctly.
Basically the end result adjusting the gain on the amplifiers would be the best case.
However in many situations this is not ideal, because the gain on amplifiers is easily adjusted. I understand the downside of sending out a weaker signal, which could induce more noise.
In a situation where only pro audio techs are working sure I agree to use amplifier gain reduction.
In situations where people who are not pro audio techs are around and there are maximum levels to adhere to and amplifiers are not lockable, it would be great to be able to reduce the output.
However each situation has it’s own set of requirements, which can require a consideration of different approaches.
I see my initial question was possibly worded unclearly.
Main question is to be able to adjust the output level.
Preferably post VU/Level/speakerprocessing/limiter.
Some situations require a limiter on a not very loud output, and to maintain a VU meter for the client which reflects the range for their use case.
There are plenty of workarounds to achieve such, such as just limiting on the speaker processing output, however it then does not have a limiter working on lower level (even though that is the max volume).
It was meant for both answers. And I’m trying to explain what is the intention of the current system design.
I’m surprised that both, @barendvw and @DeltaWhiskeyBravo14, don’t have fully understood what the speaker processing is doing and why it contains a limiter.
I’m understanding what you are asking.
The mentioned reasons are still valid.
Level control after the speaker processing is not what is helping in your situation.
To adjust the level after the x-over and the limiters would destroy the carefully crafted speaker preset, if there is any.
The output gain for the x-over-outs is meant to stay fixed after setup. You can do the system processing in there. So it is important that you understand that the amp levels are part of the speaker tuning as well. It connects all together. Changing levels will change the range for the limiter thresholds too.
The protective limiters should be the last step in the signal chain.
The same applies to the zones limiter. If there is a loudness or level restriction in one of the zones, you can use the limiter to control correct levels.
Imagine a broadcast feed that can accept 0dBu only, a 100V/70V line or hearing aid induction loops.
The limiter in the outputs is not for sound sculpting reasons, just for protection and control.
That is possible. You can control the level before speaker processing or limiter. Doing so, will have the speaker processing or limiters in place and in its intended behavior.
If you don’t need speaker processing or output limiters, disable it.
I do want to clarify my comment above to make things make better sense. I was focusing my comment on a very different situation than the OP has is using, info I somehow missed until later. So my mistake entirely. I was mixing in the realm of mixer to DAW. My comment will be found to be inapplicable I’m sure.
So likely it’s best to disregard my above comment. I missed seeing the use of a different A&H product. My apologies to all for the confusion.