I’m just finished with a little tour where I would use some small speakers connected to the SQ 5’s AB outputs as local monitors. That works quite well. There’s one problem however:
I need the drummer’s (MD) talkback mic in these so I can always hear him if necessary.
Using his TB mic as an external input to the PAFL buss works fine for that purpose, just un-checking LR to PAFL because otherwise I would always have my main mix in the monitors (and I only want that when actually activating AFL on that mix).
Doing so unfortunately also disconnects the main VU meters from the LR buss as the meters are fed from the PAFL buss.
I know this is probably not the solution you are looking for, but you could have a small analog mixer, patch the AB outs into it and have the drummer’s TB mic patched via Tie Lines out of the SQ into the analog mixer. That way you not only have him always on, but also can control levels separately.
Basically I want to see main LR on the master VU meter all the time (unless of course, a seperate PFL/AFL source is selected, then I want to see that).
The problem is: you can only get main LR to show on the VU when it is also selected as audible source for the PFL buss but I don’t want to hear it in my monitors all the time.
What I want to hear all the time is the MD’s talkback (it has a switch) but I don’t need to see it in the VU.
Indeed I was thinking about using a matrix or aux to feed the AB outputs. The TB is on a channel strip anyway so I can send it to the IEMs for the band. I would still need to send the PAFL or listen buss to a pair of outputs and return them to the desk via analogue inputs as there is no way to use the PAFL output as an input to a channel strip. Or is there?
In such a situation, I use the Listen Bus and the Master Fader Mode “Listen Level,” which allows me to adjust the level of my monitor speaker(s) with the Master Fader (I don’t know how you’ve been doing this).
If you now reactivate “LR to PAFL” so that you always see the Main LR when no other channel is selected, that might work for you.
If you want to see your PAFL but not hear it, simply close the Master Fader.
You cannot normally feed a desk output back to a desk input internally.
I would also avoid doing this, as you risk an almighty howl if you get it wrong.
The block diagram is your friend and indicates most of the paths that a signal can be routed via.
The PAFL (and hence the phones) are somewhat constrained in what they can do, but they do have an EXT IN point. Now what this can be connected to within the firmware, I would have to check.
I am still not sure why a MATRIX will not do what you want. You can feed the MAIN L/R into a MATRIX along with any GROUP.
You can’t route an INPUT to a MATRIX directly, but you can route an INPUT via a ‘dummy’ GROUP to a MATRIX if you want. This would probably be what you would need for your talk back microphone.
You can then patch your MATRIX output to any desired local output sicket for your monitors.
Perhaps, if I have misunderstood what you are trying to do, you could post a simple drawing?
So it probably comes down to using a spare aux and a soft key configured to enable AFL for it. That would also allow me to send comms and other sources into the monitor speakers if needed.
Need to check if I can actually spare an aux but it should be possible. There are currently four IEM mixes and two additional FX sends so together with the four groups there should be two busses left.
Basically, I only need the main levels on the VU meters briefly during sound checks but it’s also kind of strange when the meters aren’t showing anything at all during the show.
Right, quoting is well hidden under the plus sign (a very DiGiCo kind of thing to do…).
And you’re right: Due to the SQ lacking proper input meters (the multi-colour LEDs are rather useless for my eyes at least) I would want PAFL and main levels on the master VU meter if possible.
I will try the “merge everything into a spare aux” approach at some point but for now I need to finish mixes for the tour recordings.
having the MD’s TB mic in my monitors all the time. So I can hear him whenever he switches his mic on.
being able to add comms to the monitors if needed.
for the future, I might have additional TB mics on stage that I would need to merge with the MD’s mic in order to hear monitor requests from the other band members.
possibility to listen to main mix (or whatever PAFL source) when needed.
At the same time I want main (and PAFL) levels to show on the main VU meters.
The ideal solution would be separate source selectors for the meters and listen buss.
The main VU meters are fed from the PAFL buss - so when “LR to PAFL” is not active, the meters don’t show main level unless AFL is manually activated for LR - but that will also send LR to the monitors.
So what I think would do the trick is:
merge all TB mics and sources I need to hear (like comms) into an aux and send that to a pair of local outputs (connected to my local monitor speakers)
send listen buss to an output, use patch cable to get it back into an input and send this to the same aux as the other signals.
That way, i would keep the metering for LR and PAFL intact but would be able to mute the listen buss in my monitors by simply muting the input used to feed that aux. Does that make any sense?
I think, yes, and certainly possible.
And if you want to use now a mix of several “listenbacks” instead of a single one, you’ll naturally need also a separate mix channel for that.
But regardless of these additional requirements, in such a situation I simply prefer to always have access to the level of my monitors (as well as my headphones), which is why I suggested the other master fader mode.
But everyone has different priorities, and even on such a simple SQ, many things can be achieved in different ways.
I would use one layer for everything monitor related for easy access to levels (overall and individual sources).
It’s quite handy to have the MD’s TB in my instrument layer anyway as he needed to make an announcement to the audience the other day. As I’m basically sending his mic to the other musician’s IEMs pre fader, that was easily done by just raising his fader to get him to the PA.
Also, I’m basically using only 22 inputs for that particular band (and a local stereo input for pre and after show music) so I still have some inputs available for the additional sources.
As I’m using a small class-D amplifier for my monitors, I can always quickly change monitor level by simply turning a knob if necessary.
Yesterday it wasn’t apparent (at least to me, a non-English speaker) that his Listenback was not only for you, but also as a Talkback for the other musicians.
Using an input- or mix-channel naturally allows EQ and dynamic processing of such communication ways, which should be beneficial - especially when using multiple such sources - or when they are used even for announcements.
As I’m not a native speaker either, I might not have expressed that clear enough to begin with. Sorry if it wasn’t clear enough that this TB is used for both commands to the band (as MD = musical director) and communication with FOH/monitors. That seup just makes life so much easier, especially at the larger venues we’re now playing at and the use of IEMs.
I have mounted my speakers (our own 3” design BTW) to the top of the light bar on the SQ so there’s virtually no space left to add a tablet. The smallest one I have at hand would be a Surface pro as the 10” green robot one is used as a backup tablet on stage to get IEM mixes done should one of the musician’s phones have connection issues.
Either way, I only need the main meters in order to see what I’m actually sending to the venue’s matrix, speaker management or desk. After initial sound checks, main levels won’t change that much anyway but it’s still quite strange to have the meters black all the time…
