I have a Qu-32 at my church and want to record stems / multi-tracks of our live service. We want this for a number of reasons, but the main reason right now is that I want to replay the multi-tracks through FOH when nobody is there because I need to go through and set the preamp / gain levels for all the channels… and I don’t want to do this during service.
I have been reading how to do this online and on this forum, but I want to make sure I know what I’m doing before I get there (since I live 1.5 hrs away).
1.) If I adjust the faders in my DAW, will these adjust the faders on the Qu-32 in real-time? Conversely, if I adjust the faders on the Qu-32, will these adjust the faders in my DAW?
2.) After I successfully record all the multi-tracks, do I just replay it in my DAW and the audio will be sent back to the board and will play through FOH? And I can control each channel with the faders, and the gains of each channel?
I know these may be newbie questions, but hopefully you can see what I’m trying to do. If you have ANY additional information, like tips or things to consider, please let me know.
3.) Do I create 32 empty channels in my DAW and then link via MIDI each channel to the appropriate channel on the Qu-32, or does it do this automatically?
4.) Let’s say I successfully get the 32 channels into my DAW. Am I able to get the other layer of 32 channels into my DAW? By “other layer” I mean the one with FX Send and Return, DCA groups, etc.
Reaper should not be an issue.
windows 10 may present its own peculiar issues.
IF you have win10 set up to work properly with audio then you can play back 32 channels as I read the block diagram.
You get 32 channels , which I read as the ones on the bottom, which are real channel strips.
Scenes and set up choices should determine send returns, DCA groups ,etc not channels, so save your settings you used and then recall them using a scene for the test you do. THEN be sure to save that result as a brand new scene.
Do check scenes in the manual for what you can save and what you can block from being changed on recall.
Midi is a mystery to me, when it comes to the Qu, so you need to read the manual, google, or wait for someone with more experience to help you.
However number 1 answer should be: ‘close enough for govt work’.
And number 2: I sense is one way play or record, so change source to usb in not out , and play back 32 channels to hear them.
Why not just move the faders on the Qu instead of messing around with MIDI control?
Why not do a sound check and adjust the levels before the LIVE service???
Or adjust them during the live service to get them right???
THEN save that scene for recall as your starting point.
Seems more logical than doing them during the service with the wrong levels.
Here is my very special setup procedure of Windows 10 when it should work with reaper to record and play back up to minimum 48 channels (not necessarily A&H condoles, but also with dLive and SQ).
unpack the computer
start it and finish the setup of the preinstalled Windows
install reaper and the audio driver for the mixing console
That is so far the setup. The next steps describes the usage
start reaper, prepare it for recording of multitrack and start recording.
after finishing the recording change the routing on the mixer to enable playback of the recorded tracks
start the playback.
Works well with standard desktop, laptop or mini PC. But maybe thats just related to the power lines of central europe, or the taste of the water, I don‘t know.
After you have had a win machine suddenly strike with no obvious reason you will realize how dangerous it is for real work.
Win 10 killed a usb stick. Still worked on win10 but wont work anywhere else now.
Win 8 suddenly turned off all usb ports to help me ‘save’ power. Did not ask for it did not want it.
Real pain finding out how to get all the usb working again.
google and you can find the horror stories of what win did to people without their asking or doing anything but just out of the blue decided it knew better than what we did about how to run things.
I can only talk about my personal experience. Nothing more and nothing less. Experience of others may differ for several reasons. Some might be caused by the operator. Not everything is caused by the bad industry. Ah, and very bad, there is no upward compressor available on standard windows, very bad…
@blandified
I am not quite sure what you want todo exactly.
Recording multitrack stems and playing them back via the QU32 do not need the usage of MIDI. So I cannot see any reason why you should concentrate on the MIDI stuff, at least not for the beginnings.
You wrote „but the main reason right now is that I want to replay the multi-tracks through FOH when nobody is there because I need to go through and set the preamp / gain levels for all the channels…“
Recording the input signals, e.g during a band rehersal, with the QU means that you send the input signal after the analog preamp and after the analog to digital conversion (AD converter) to the DAW for recording. Sending that signals back from the DAW to the mixer will bypass the analog preamp and the AD converter, so you cannot use that recordings to „set the preamp/gain levels“.
So here are my answers for your questions
the faders of the DAW and the console are not related to each other if you use the QU32 as a simple ASIO audio interface. There are possibilities to use the QU as a MIDI controller for Reaper, but I think that is not required for your task.
yes, you have to adjust the output routing on reaper and the input routing on the QU to archive that. You can control the send level in reaper with the faders of Reaper and control the mixing levels on the QU with its faders. But you cannot control the preamp gain using the recorded tracks.
as I said at 2) you have to define the routings on the DAW and also on the QU.
First off, thank you everyone for the responses! I am definitely learning a lot from you guys.
As a general statement, I know you may be scratching your heads as to why I am wanting to do certain things. I am trying to steer our stream/sound to be better, and some of my questions aren’t necessarily the end goal, but just something I am trying to learn to get to our desired end result. Hopefully that makes sense.
For example, I have been hesitant to change the preamp gains too much live because changing it would also effect the levels being sent to our livestream, since they share the same preamps and the livestream people will yell at me lol (we plan on splitting the snake and getting the livestream team their own board and preamps, but on a budget right now). I also am the only bass/guitar player, so it’s difficult helping with sound and playing at the same time.
@volounteer
Thanks for your tip on using scenes! That is a great idea and I will incorporate it.
@Mfk0815
Thanks for clarifying the routing of board → laptop and changing it for laptop → board… I was thinking the communication, once set, was two-way at all times but what you said makes sense.
1.) On the MIDI question, my biggest thing was I wanted to be able to remote into the computer and adjust the sound of the livestream from home. I was thinking if a laptop is MIDI’ed to the soundboard and running in a DAW, I can remote in to the DAW and adjust the sound from my home computer. Would this be a good method?
2.) Wow okay I don’t know how I missed that going from the DAW back to the board it would bypass the preamps, but what you said makes sense and you explained it extremely well. So this means if I DO send the multi-tracks from the DAW back to the board (like the virtual soundcheck video does), I can turn the preamp gain up down all around and it wouldn’t be affecting the levels of the playback?
Thanks everyone! You don’t know how much you’re helping me!
First you need to tune the room by ‘ringing it out’.
Adjust the fine EQ on the LR outputs to achieve this.
Then adjust your mikes EQ to gain maximum GBF to avoid ringing and set the gain to give you enough so that raising the fader will not cause feedback, and add in a few dB more depending on your comfort level of risk of feedback.
Then do not ever raise the gain on the preamps.
If someone is talking too loud then lower the fader. If too soft, well you can go up 10dB safely.
After that you might be able to use compression and some make up gain to raise their speech but dont do all that in RT during the service.
This is simplified so consult a more detailed explanation or have the dealer do this for y’all.
As to livestream feed them from a mix. You can set the mix so you wont have problems if you use the faders as intended.
And of course you set the preamp to max already so you will not touch that at all.
Livestream should be using OBS which has its own controls so you do not need another Qu.
Use an audio interface to connect the mix to the PC with OBS.
You may or may not have a hardware device for the video or (I understand) could use the OBS in the PC to do that along with merging audio onto the video.
In terms of our livestream goals, one of our ideal setups would be to get a Y-split on the snake that splits to FOH and livestream (we visited another church recently that did this and it really works for them). FOH and livestream have their own boards and thus their own preamp gains… this is nice so if FOH turns up their gains, it won’t affect livestream and vice versa.
Currently, our livestream setup is next to FOH, and we use IEM or headphones to listen to livestream audio. In a perfect world, we sound treat a back room and set up all the livestream gear in there, get studio monitors, get a dedicated computer to handle DAW and multirack for processing, etc.
Just as FYI, Mix4 on the Qu-32 is our mix for the livestream, and we send that from the board to the livestream via XLR.
Currently, our livestream setup is next to FOH, and we use IEM or headphones to listen to livestream audio. In a perfect world, we sound treat a back room and set up all the livestream gear in there, get studio monitors, get a dedicated computer to handle DAW and multirack for processing, etc.
Just as FYI, Mix4 on the Qu-32 is our mix for the livestream, and we send that from the board to the livestream via XLR.
Is your mix 4 set up pre or post fade?
Is the person who is monitoring the live stream mix with headphones using an ipad to
control the live stream mix?
If you could get an audio feed from mix 4 into another room and in that room still connect to the WIFI the mixer is on you could mix the live mix outside of the main sound of the sound system on a small pair of speakers.
If forget the company who makes them but they have some extreme isoloation headphones
basically hearing protector earmuffs with Sony headphone elements in them.
Using something like those in the same room as the main sound system would help give you an isolated mix reference.
I don’t know if Mix4 is pre or post fade, but I will look online and try to figure out how I can tell. Once I can figure that out, should I set it for pre or post fade?
Yes, the person running the livestream has “noise cancelling” headphones and using an iPad to control Mix4 (livestream mix). I was talking to another church and they don’t recommend any sort of headphones, IEM only. I think this would be a better option if we cannot go to a separate room with studio monitors… when I play guitar/bass with my IEM, I can’t hear ANY thing cause they cancel the sound so well. We might need to have the livestream sound guys to get their own IEM.
live stream guys do not need to listen to anything IF you trust the audio team to set the mix right
what you must do is set the sound you export with the video using a meter on the screen to get the level right.
‘good’ is subjective and most of your audience is listening on pc speakers and are not golden eared audiohiles.
That said we provide TWO sets of headphones to the video guys so they feel better about things.
It would be better if they were not running our mix out into the mike input:)
and then keep asking us to lower the signal level.
They seem to think that more hardware and software will make up for their lack of skills which seems to run the gamut from cameras, to audio, and comms, as well as to avoid kicking the tripod so much.
I don’t know if Mix4 is pre or post fade, but I will look online and try to figure out how I can tell. Once I can figure that out, should I set it for pre or post fade?
Yes, the person running the livestream has “noise cancelling” headphones and using an iPad to control Mix4 (livestream mix). I was talking to another church and they don’t recommend any sort of headphones, IEM only. I think this would be a better option if we cannot go to a separate room with studio monitors… when I play guitar/bass with my IEM, I can’t hear ANY thing cause they cancel the sound so well. We might need to have the livestream sound guys to get their own IEM.
There are a few ways to check mix pre or post fade settings.
select the mix (mix 4 in this case) and then go to the Pre Fade and Assign buttons
on the left of mixer next to the row of green select buttons.
Hitting the Assign button will show every channel assigned to the selected mix.
Hitting the the Pre Fade button with show all channels that are set pre fade.
While holding the Assign or Pre Fade button you can use the green select buttons to toggle the selections.
Select the routing screen and then select channel by channel, the menu will show all
routing selections for the selected channel.
-Select the needed mix and the routing screen will show the global options for that mix.
IEM’s or good isoaltion headphones either one will work when mixing a separate mix in the live sound environment as long as they sound decent and block the outside sound.
live stream guys do not need to listen to anything *IF* you trust the audio team to set the mix right
Your “audio team” mixes from a balcony how do you think that mix could possibly translate to a half way decent live stream mix?
From what you say it sounds like their balcony mix does not even translate well to the lower seating areas.
Anything that is acoustically louder in the room will be lower in the main mix and need to higher in the live steam mix.
They seem to think that more hardware and software will make up for their lack of skills which seems to run the gamut from cameras, to audio, and comms, as well as to avoid kicking the tripod so much.
What do you mean “they” from what I have read it is YOU that seem to think hardware and software will fix all the problems.
The audio board person du jour will listen to the mix on headphones which is the same audio shipped out of mix78 to the video PC for merging with the pix. It is custom adjusted just for the livestream. So unsure what you think is a problem there. The only problem I see is folks tweaking it once it was set up properly.
Let me set one thing straight, since you have noted it several time: The sound quality is GOOD. PERIOD.
There are some picky golden eared types who feel a need to make it ‘better’. Needless to say they disagree.
And with that bleeping ap that AH provides too many people can tweak the board simultaneously.
We need a feature that only one person can make any adjustments.
Full disclosure: I have tweaked the sound on occasion to my taste:) Not needed, but I ‘improved’ it anyway.
But I will defer if I see the MD using his Ipad.
They, being the video team, are the ones who are proposing a Dual camera set up with associated gear that would be fine for a studio but far more than is ever needed for live stream. Live stream sites say we already have the top of the line camera for live stream. We have some operational issues which their wish list only touches in passing. They are hung up on megapixels and other things that cant happen no matter what, as utoob has a maximum resolution they provide no matter what you send to them initially. And we are limited by wifi bandwidth, the users bandwidth (I only get 460p at home), and also the PC monitors that are HD not 8K.
I only have ONE problem {other than the video folks:)} and am looking for a solution that I can get agreement on using. Yes I keep looking at alternatives to see what could work but they (the audio they) would be willing to do. One problem is the A1 still has a job and has limited time to put towards fixing problems until he is 100% retired. And I suspect he may still be learning digital as his experience was on the old analog board.
As to sound quality, as I have told the A1, nobody in the audience cares about what anyone does to make the sound ‘better’. Just get it close to good and that would be more than sufficient. Now I understand that the MD and A1 are compelled to tweak the sound to improve it. Unfortunately they are located in different places so hear different things. The key to me is that nobody complains about sound quality. Plenty of them complain about not being able to hear clearly at all. So the one and only problem I see that we need to fix is the excessive DR. That looks like a hardware fix in the Qu or a software fix in the video PC if they use an ap there to further limit the DR.
The audio board person du jour will listen to the mix on headphones which is the same audio shipped out of mix78 to the video PC for merging with the pix. It is custom adjusted just for the livestream. So unsure what you think is a problem there. The only problem I see is folks tweaking it once it was set up properly.
Ok I thought they were just going by what they heard in the balcony.
They, being the video team, are the ones who are proposing a Dual camera set up with associated gear that would be fine for a studio but far more than is ever needed for live stream.
Two cameras and a simple switcher (actually you can camera switch using OBS) with make for a more professional “looK”.
One camera can be set to a wide a cover shot and the primary camera gets the medium and close up shots. You can switch to the wide shot pick up a new shot on the primary camera then switch to the close up.
Maybe load some graphics in OBS to call up sometimes.
The wide cover shot camera does not have to be a top of the line 4k.
They do listen on headphones to check the mixes. Is there any other way for mix monitoring?
They may not be listening on headphones when they tweak the live sound , from LR , in the balcony.
For sure the MD is up front left side hearing it there when he uses the Ipad.
I would support another camera like we have now for about 15% of the cost they want to spend.
I might support a slightly better camera if they would justify how it helps the church somehow if only operating things easier.
But what they want is total GAS by someone who clearly does not understand what the camera specs mean or how the system works.
No camera needs to be 4K for livestream. utoob will limit it all to HD no matter what you send them.
I agree they should get another, and have suggested they set one to long zoom and one to medium, and get an easy panning mount for the medium. They would need another small hardware encoder too.
They do some graphics with OBS but they are still wrapping their heads around getting the video done better.
Actually I checked last week and see they add words for the songs at the bottom now. But for now nothing fancy.
OTOH this is livestream not a network studio production.
They got a new monitor so have two images on the left one, and other info on the pc display, so they can switch things by seeing what would go live when they do.
All in all they have done a great job coming from ground zero but they dont know what they dont know and try to do some things badly because of it. OTOH The main operator is (I think) about ready to enter HS and deserves a lot of credit for what he does get done. One of the Deacons on the video committee is the big spender.
utoob will limit it all to HD no matter what you send them.
this is simply wrong as a general statement
the resolution on Youtube live streams depends on many things
and it is possible to stream with more than 1080i
but it depends…
Two cameras and a simple switcher (actually you can camera switch using OBS) with make for a more professional “looK”.
actually OBS can switch very easily between cameras
the professional look would benefit more from better concepts than more cameras and a switcher
but mostly people have to find out what they want and need by just trying things out
I did my first stream with OBS as well, but quickly changed that for better software or hardware encoders
a good device is the Atem Mini Pro,
only downside is it has only HDMI inputs, no SDI