First of all, let me preface this post with the ‘I am an amateur’ tag:
Due to COVID, my church is currently recording video and audio segments to make up our worship services and then editing them together. Our QU-32 mixer is plugged into a digital camera via XLR cable to one of the camera inputs, allowing us to send the audio received by the board to the camera.
The problem I’m having is that I’ll set a nice mix up for whatever we’re recording and when I listen through the PAFL it sounds lovely, but it doesn’t sound the same on the recording from the camera. I assume the channels and mix are set to post-fader because we get our fx and volume changes on the camera, but it seems that the mix still doesn’t come out quite right. Certain parts stick out more or less on the recording than when listening from the board. Any suggestions on how I might go about making the mixer listen and camera recording sound the same would be helpful. Thanks.
To post on a web site
We record the audio to CD firston its own independent output
XFR file to PC
Edit in DAW
Simultaneouly we Record video on sd card
when done xfr file to PC
Combine audio and video with adobe or other program
Be sure the mike in the camera is OFF and also reduce its gain to -80 or however low your camera allows
But if you have it on AGC is irrelevant. Just use it as a guide to line up the CD file with the real audio.
Livestreaming we feed a mix to an audio interface to the pc with SLOBS
Simultaneously feed video to pc
slobs does its thing
transmitted live to AM/FM and livestream
As an additional point you should check is the cabeling,
since XLR is symmetrical and consumer cameras sometimes have no symmetrical conections avaiable…
but it’s more likely that the AGC is causing your problem
To what Steffen was getting at, does you camera actually have an XLR input connection or is it just a 3.5mm mini jack?
Camera AGC should be turned off.
If your camera is a more pro’ish model with XLR audio inputs there will be some level controls and input selections.
The input should be set to line level.
a bigger issue is that the camera mike in is a 3.5 TRS for a MIKE and the Qu is feeding it LINE levels.
you absolutely have to have the AGC on or the signal will totally distort in the camera.
The best way is to feed the audio from Qu to the PC via an audio interface.
Turn the camera mike off or at least as down as far as it can be turned.
Then edit the audio and video together in adobe or similar program.
Use adobe (or a DAW first )to edit and tweak the sound as the DR is probably way too wide and viewers wont hear all the words.
The camera mike is intended to help align the good recording from the Qu not to replace it,
although many people do try to use the camera mike as the main sound source.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I’ll be taking a look at the settings today and hopefully it’s just as simple as AGC and or line level.
Just to clear a few things up: the camera does have two XLR inputs on the side and the onboard microphone is off. I’ll update this thread after I do some testing.
Your camera appears to be far better than many of us use. Pls let us know the model you chose.
But it still has its own amplifer that might not be perfectly flat, or it may have its own EQ that needs fixing.
Some may have settings to optimize voice or other sources that needs to be selected too.
Your headphones could be the issue. They are rarely exactly the same as the speakers from the camera would indicate.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I’ll be taking a look at the settings today and hopefully it’s just as simple as AGC and or line level.
Just to clear a few things up: the camera does have two XLR inputs on the side and the onboard microphone is off. I’ll update this thread after I do some testing.
It sounds like your camera is crossing over into a pro camera model that includes XLR inputs.
Turn off the AGC, make sure it is in line input mode an adjust the levels manually.
a bigger issue is that the camera mike in is a 3.5 TRS for a MIKE and the Qu is feeding it LINE levels.
you absolutely have to have the AGC on or the signal will totally distort in the camera.
The AGC will not prevent the input from overloading on a mic level only camera that is getting hit a line level signal, at best it will take some of the “edge” off the distortion during the recording process.
Also 3.5mm TRS stereo mic inputs on a camera can not be directly fed with a balanced line input with a straight through wired XLR to 3.5mm.
With a proper interface in both level attenuation and converting to a single end unbalanced signal you can use effectively use a consumer level camera connected to a sound system.
Sorry to tell you but our camera AGC absolutely handled the Qu line level fed into the mike input by the video team.
We had them turn the gain on the mike as far down as possible.
I admit that I was then shocked as much as you should be now because I did not think it could do it.
BUT IT DID!!
We now have a better approach with feeding the Qu to the PC via an audio interface but in a pinch one could turn the gain way down and the let the AGC do its thing. No guarantee that every camera will be as good as our cheap one was.
Sorry to tell you but our camera AGC absolutely handled the Qu line level fed into the mike input by the video team.
We had them turn the gain on the mike as far down as possible.
Where was the MIC gain you were adjusting. on the camera or mixer?
Some of the “consumer” cameras don’t even have a level control.
We have a Canon XA11 camera with the two XLR inputs on the side. Both inputs are set to line and manual mode. Input 1 receives Mix 7-8 from our QU-32 which is our ‘livestream/recording’ mix. We use the same headphones for listening to the mix at the board as we do for listening to the camera, a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pros.
I found the AGC setting on the camera, looks like there is no ‘off’ but I can switch it from Automatic to Manual and set it at 0db. Is that equivalent to ‘off’? Also, being an amateur, is there a difference between AGC for audio and video or is it paired together? When I turned the automatic off, the image became darker and sharper. Was hard to tell if the sound was much different but I didn’t have a full music group here today. If it’s a matter of having AGC off to help audio quality, do I need better lighting so the image stays the way it was? Thanks.
You really need to read the manual. Sigh…
Our Canon manual is woefully short of useful information about the audio itself.
I suspect yours is too.
You may be hearing the camera mike mixed with the Qu feed.
Also beware of the PC mike if you get to streaming not just edit and post the file.
Can you also turn down the gain on the camera mike not just turn off the AGC?
Our mike at 0 means mike gain not AGC which our canon seems to use no matter what.
That is why we turned gain down as far as possible to approach -60 dB or so.
But you have xlr inputs so yours might be different. Read the manual or check a canon forum.
In your case the AGC in the set up menu is controlling the video level and nothing to do with sound.
After taking a quick look at the camera, the switches next to the audio level controls
that are labeled A & M are the automatic / manual (AGC) controls for the audio input
levels. Put them in the M position.
The camera mic is turned completely off and all of its options on the camera’s menu are greyed out - probably because we’re using the XLR input. I checked the canon manual, not super helpful, at least in terms of audio options. The limiter is off, the attenuator is off, most options are greyed out since we’re using a line-in instead of the onboard. The switches next to the audio level controls are already in the M position. Only thing I can think of is perhaps there’s a degradation in the line between the QU-32 and the camera? Is that a thing? The camera does also have a ‘headphones’ volume option but I wouldn’t think that would affect the tone, just make it quieter to listen to.
I’ll try to make a post on a canon forum and see if they know what might be causing the audio difference. Thanks.
From the mixer to camera using mix 7-8 are you taking two lines from the mixer 7-8 outputs up to the camera xlr inputs.
I take it that if you PAFL mix 7 -8 and listen it it in headphones at the mixer that it sounds good?
When you listen to it at the camera then it sounds bad?
What do the audio levels look like on the camera meters?
If you are using both outputs on mix 7 - 8 from the mixer and sending them one line to
each input at the camera and one of the XLR cables is wired with pins 2 and 3 swapped at one end that would cause a lot of phase cancellation to the audio on the recording.
That’s a long shot but possible.
If the cables have a broken line on either pin 2 or 3 that will cause low level and “thin” sound on a balanced input.
There’s only a single XLR line from the board to the camcorder. When I PAFL the 7-8 mix, it sounds great. When I listen at the camera, it doesn’t sound as good. It’s not terrible, but when I’ve mixed at the board for a certain sound and then the camera doesn’t match it on the recording, it’s frustrating. Audio levels on the camera meters look fine, it’s definitely receiving the signal at good strength. The ‘headphone volume’ setting wouldn’t affect the sound other than volume would it? I’m wondering if I should just use a decibel meter on the board headphones and then match them to the camera headphones and see if that makes any difference to the quality.