Qu24 Church Livestream setup

Qu Qu General Discussions
1

Hello everyone,

I am hoping someone can provide me with a clear idea of what exactly is necessary for the setup my church is trying to use for livestream.

The proposed setup was:

Qu24 (mix 5-6) –> USB B –> Ableton Live (on a Dell Inspiron laptop) –> Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen –> Mogami Gold Stereo Breakout/ Insert Cable 3.5mm TRS Male to Dual 1/4” TS Male L/R –> ATEM Mini Extreme (mic 1 input set to line level)

I was alerted to the issue of level mismatch between the Scarlett 2i2 (professional level output) and the ATEM (consumer level input). I have been going back and forth with Gemini to try to figure out the optimal solution (which I previously thought was the one I outlined above), but in double-checking before making purchases, I realized it may not be. Anyways I’m about to pull my hair out because it seems like every solution I think might work ends up presenting some problem. I am trying to not add a lot of expenses on top of what the setup was going to cost (was going to be purchasing the mogami cable and the scarlett 2i2).

Another solution I came across was using two attenuators (20dB, one for left and one for right) out of the scarlett 2i2 into two adapters, then into the mogami cable, and finally into the ATEM Mini Extreme.

Are either of these solutions going to result in clean, professional audio, without major level mismatch issues, noise/ hum issues, or phasing issues (this last one is the reason we need a new solution, because our current setup has a phasing issue).

Thank you in advance!

Jacob

2

I myself used a 2i2 for a while with my Church Livestream into an ATEM Mini Pro, the smaller ATEM than your proposed unit.

Use the front 1/4 inch inputs on the 2i2, they’re switchable to line level.

My Livestream started very basic and quickly needed upgraded including a better USB interface. I had started with the Scarlett single channel, next to the 2i2, finally to the PreSonus 68c. Certainly there’s even better if you choose, over any of these 3.

I had this setup for almost 2 years, ATEM Mini Pro, PreSonus 68c interface replaced the 2i2, Soundcraft Ui16 rack mixer, Mac Mini M2, using Studio One pro for effects and compression to bring up the output to about -9 LUFS, that 68c was both in and out to Studio One via the USB, output directly to ATEM Mini Pro audio 3.5 mm jack 1. This can be mono or stereo. This setup ran a full separate mix to YouTube and Zoom Meeting.

Recent changes include mixer change to Allen and Heath Qu-5 mixer, no DAW, no 68c interface. The Qu-5 sits at my mix desk at the Sanctuary right rear. I set a full virtual duplicate input of all audio inputs by “burning up” the 10 inputs necessary so I can mute as required for Livestream as required.

My Qu-5 is set for Layer A to be FOH equals LR mix, Lobby is mix 1 AKA an Aux. Then Mix 2 is piano monitor. This is literally input 1-10. Its mute follows LR, but it’s a separate mix. Ditto mix 2.

Layer B is built as burning up another 10 input channels, but physically it’s the same 10 jacks that inputs the layer A, but virtually after that it’s channels 17-26 inside the mixer. Layer B consists of Hearing assist mix 3, Bluetooth to Nursery mix 4, Livestream as stereo mix 5/6. As before, Later B mutes all follow one another but the individual Mixes have full separation of faders.

My Qu-5 isn’t directly connected to the mics, there’s an AB168 stage box in my sound room physically connected to mics and outputs. Qu-5 connected via the SLink.

Back to the 2i2, I used it for about 6-8 months. It was decent, but somehow I got the itch to upgrade. Went to that PreSonus 68c and was happier with that. 68c is discontinued I believe, but you may be happier with a similar choice than a 2i2. My opinion only.

PS, PreSonus has a 24c similar to my choice of 68c. Difference was 2 channel 24c vs 4 on the 68c. This 24c is $157.99 with Studio One 6 free.

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I’m not totally following - how do I utilize the 1/4” inputs on the 2i2 in my signal chain? The 2i2 is receiving usb from ableton and needs to output to the atem.

4

My mistake, I thought you were needing to first input through the 2i2 via cables other than USB. You’re going direct from USB instead.

Hold on a minute while I reread your info.

OK, about the only thing I recall doing with the 2i2 input to the ATEM Mini was going into the ATEM software to Audio and trimming back the mixer input gains to prevent overs. You’ll see a virtual mixer in that audio tab of software control for the ATEM.

See a sample in the image. Fader count might be different, but the layout is similar enough.

You’ll have to monitor all levels after hookup to be sure you’re not going too hot. Once you get an idea each item in the signal chain is relatively similar, and not going overly hot, you should be OK.

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5

Our SQ-7 desk is directly connected to our ATEM for audio.

Our PC is connected to our SQ-7 for audio and to our ATEM for video.

Our ATEM feeds 86” monitors all over the Church and the live stream (via a Pearl).

Audio is fed throughout the church from the SQ-7.

We have added short delays to the audio at various points to ensure video/audio synchronisation. This is mainly due to the processing delay within our 86” monitors and the audio delay into our Overflow and Recreation Hall (that we use as an Overflow Overflow).

Can you explain a little bit more the use case of the PC?

I can provide you with a block diagram of our system (if that would help you).

Dave

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6

So, another important consideration in the setup is that we do not have a dedicated sound engineer. Most of the time, I have to set everything as best I can using virtual soundcheck before the service, and then I listen to the first half of the service once the sermon starts and make adjustments before the last song. So I don’t know that a solution that needs to be closely monitored will be the best at this point in time.

Do you know anything about possibly using some attenuators and adapters, like I had mentioned?

7

I’ve not used them myself, so I can’t comment on them. I’ve not needed them either with the way I run mine. Much like an initial setup for a mixer, I set the ATEM audio to average between very low and very high. I try to determine what the output of the mixer is relative to the ATEM input, and then the output to my Livestream. I try to get them and keep them relatively similar. This I set and forget, leaving live mixing to what I’ve got to monitor and adjust on the fly.

8

So, the goal is to send a stereo mix from the Qu24 to Ableton for our livestream processing and then send that to the ATEM (which then sends out our livestream). I just want to make sure I’m not implementing a solution that causes issues related to improperly converting a balanced signal to unbalanced, or regarding the level mismatch of going from professional audio level to the consumer level of the ATEM.

I am open to other solutions that may be simpler, that still allow for completely separate processing for the livestream and don’t eat up another mix on the Qu24.

9

You find that you are comfortably able to set and forget with that and not have any issue of overdriving the sound to the ATEM?

10

With my old and now new setups, yes I’m comfortable with it. I’m more hands on than you sound to be, no offense meant, but I only monitor ATEM audio occasionally live. My setup is going direct from the mixer to the ATEM and not via a DAW anymore. Despite this, if you get it set moderately it’ll be fine.

Overs are far worse than a bit too low in my opinion.

Once you get your equipment, plug it all up, and get a sound check audio going through, set the gains as you need them, making sure none are too hot.

11

We have the QU32 at our church and we use an Atem Mini and it works great. I use one of the group outs to the Atem. Hope that helps.

1 Like
12

If you are using a PC and a whole load of software to avoid using a separate mix channel on the audio desk, that sounds to me like overkill and a retrograde step.

I was involved with the design (and refurbishments) of our Church AV system, and would always use dedicated professional equipment for the audio, vision processing and streaming. I would never risk a PC in line. We only use our PC for PowerPoint presentations, Easy Worship package and videos (i.e. roles that we are forced to).

Am I missing something somewhere?

What do you use the inputs, groups, mixes and matrix channels for (i.e. how is your QU24 configured and what is your workflow).

The lack of a sound engineer is a problem. Any reason why you can’t have a small group of volunteers for this role? It sounds like you have the equipment, but not the people, to turn this into a viable solution.

Dave

13

Given this revelation, I would recommend that you completely forgo the idea of using Ableton for your broadcast mix.

The only reason to send your audio out of the console for broadcast is to have someone actively mix it. If there is no one to actively mix it, then you have simply added complexity to a situation that needs to be as simply as possible.

You would be better off simply creating a “broadcast aux” in the QU24 that is setup with “post fader” sends. Assign all of the sources that you need to hear in the broadcast to this aux. The output of this aux will be routed to the ATEM (however that needs to happen).

On a weekly basis during rehersal, the FOH engineer will first get the FOH mix sounding good. Once the FOH mix is sounding good, they will switch to listening/mixing the broadcast mix. They should adjust the aux sends of the various sources to ensure what is heard in the broadcast closely matches what is heard “in the room”. This usually required turning up sources that are acoustically loud in the room (drums for example) in the broadcast mix. You’ll also likely need to turn up the aux sends of speaking mics and audience mics in the broadcast mix (above what is sent to FOH).

Once this “ratio” between the FOH and broadcast mix is set well, the FOH engineer will go back to mixing the FOH mix. However now any changes he makes at FOH will also be heard in the broadcast mix. If he pushes up the guitar for a solo, it will also be pushed up in the broadcast mix. If he adjusts the vocal mics to get a more balanced harmony, those changes will also be made in the broadcast mix.

Setting things up this way is as close to a “automatic” broadcast mix as you can get. Now it is never going to be 100% perfect. There will always be subtle balance issues that a dedicated broadcast mixer would hear and fix on the fly. But you can easily achieve a live mix that is “80% there” without needing a dedicated broadcast mixer. Most people aren’t going to consciously “miss” the 20% that isn’t exactly balanced correctly either.

That’s how our church has set up our non-monitored/mixed broadcast feed and it’s certainly how I suggest other churches set up their broadcast mixes when there isn’t a dedicated broadcast engineer.

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14

That is exactly what we do.

We do have a sound engineer but, in general, a large proportion are volunteers that only adjust the FOH mix.

The stream mix is largely “pre-canned” along the lines as mentioned above.

The more knowledgeable sound engineers will adjust the stream mix independently of the FOH mix.

Send your Mix (5-6) directly to the ATEM.

Yes, you may need the appropriate cables and connectors.

Dave

1 Like
15

Agreed. My own Livestream to YouTube and Zoom Meeting was an Aux stereo mix into a PreSonus 68c interface, into Studio One to come back to the Mac back to the 68c via USB to use its physical rear outputs into the ATEM Mini Pro to broadcast.

Big mouthful? Yes. I felt this was the best answer at that time, and I’d still like to get Studio One 7 Pro into the process. I had to process the audio to get it to a very high consistent loudness for an elderly lady at Church. That meant multi levels of compression. Yes it worked. But so does the new process, an Aux mix from the Qu-5 direct to the Mac Mini via the ATEM Mini Pro audio mixing into the video. This Mac Mini M2 runs Zoom Meeting plus a concurrent save AV by OBS sending the file to our network storage.

And I use the aux Master 2 Bus delay to sync audio to video for the ATEM.

At our Church, we have 2 volunteers to live mix. That’s myself plus the pastor’s teenage son. He mixes FOH, the Vestibule and piano monitor mixes follows the FOH mutes. My side is Livestream mix plus Hearing and Nursery mixes. The FOH and Livestream mixes are actively controlled throughout the service beginning to end. I’m also the one to start the zoom meeting and OBS file save. I’m also actively running the stream cameras.