Hi. I’m not an A&H paid expert, but I have run effects through the monitors on my QU-16.
The FX mixes (FX1 FX2 buttons) control the amount of each channel heading to the FX busses. To get them to come out, you have to turn them up (RETURN) on the mix you want them on using the second layer button on the left above CH1. In your picture, you have raised them on the LR buss, which is why they hit the FOH fine.
To get effects in the monitors, first select the monitor mix, not the FX mix, on the right hand mix buttons, example Mix1, for the monitors you want effects. Then press the upper LAYER select button, like you did when setting effects on the LR, while still in the monitor mix you want effects applied. After you press the second layer button, check to see the MIX button light is still on for the monitor mix you are looking to add effects to. Raise the FX1 or FX2 RETURN and you should have FX in that monitor mix. You can then stay on the second layer and press the other MIX buttons and set effect levels for each. Don’t forget to move back to the first layer before trying to mix the channel levels for any MIX or LR buss.
So I got the idea to try mix 2-4. They give me flawless fx. I’ve came to the conclusion mix one has a problem.
It is used so I guess it needs to go off to the Dr.
Thanks for all your help!
There is s ton a great info on this forum.
Press the Sel key on a Mix, switch to the top layer, press and hold the assign key. Do the FX return Sel keys light up? If not, press the Sel keys to route those channels to the Mix.
I’d like to add one little thing to this wonderful thread, in case another ‘Rookie’ like myself searches it out in hope of figuring out QU 16 FX patching.
I did everything as instructed above (thanks especially to Cornelius!).
The FX was coming through including using Mix 1 and Mix 2 for FX3 and FX4, respectively … but I was getting these horrible feedback loops when I turned up the send faders.
I may be the only one ignorant of this, but lets say for example you want to patch all FX into Mix 4. Once you select Mix 4 you need to bring up all four Return faders (FX1 Ret, FX2 Ret, FX3 Ret & FX4 Ret) and Send faders (FX1, FX2, Mix1 & Mix2) … but!!!
When you select any of the FX, e.g., FX1, from the panel do not bring up the Return faders or you will get feedback.
FWIW when you cycle though your FX, i.e, FX1, FX2, Mix1 & Mix2 in my example, with the top layer selected you should see exactly the same things: those fades up where you set them along with the fader of the mix you are monitoring.
Hope this helps someone … it was painful to figure out!
When you select any of the FX, e.g., FX1, from the panel do not bring up the Return faders or you will get feedback.
You were looping the the FX back into it self, you can turn off the the the assignment buttons on the FX return faders, first select the FX send tab, then go to the FX return faders and then turn off the assignment button on the fader, do that for all FX sends.
That will make it harder to accidentally turn up an FX send fader on a FX return and loop it back into itself.
I saved my default reset scene making sure the FX sends on the FX returns were all turned off.
Personally I think it’s easier to navigate the menus to do that using the Ipad app than
the screen on the mixer.
Mike … can you break this down a little more specifically, please? I’m not quite getting it.
I do understand about the looping back of the fx … but this confuses me: “fx send tab.” By this do you mean the FX1 and FX2 buttons on the right of the master fader?
And this: “That will make it harder to accidentally turn up an FX send fader on a FX return and loop it back into itself.” I got rid of the feedback by doing the opposite. For example, I selected the FX1 button and then I turned down the FX1 Ret and raised the FX1 Send?
And finally: Just to clarify … in case I have this all backwards and you straighten me out. I don’t understand the Assign function. I note that in the same scenario as above with the FX1 selected by the Master Fader, on the upper layer when I push the assign button the left side (ST1 to FX4) lights up except for FX1 and the right side (FX1 Send to MIX 9-10) remains dark. If I then select FX2, I get the the same result, except now that now FX1 Ret lights up and FX2 Ret goes dark.
On a mixer surface it would be on of the FX buttons, on the Qu Pad app I call it a tab but I guess it’s still a button.
I use a QU Pac most of the time so I’m using the QU Pad app.
FX auxes/mixes are normally sent post fade from the channel so the FX send level tracks
changes made to the main mix.
That’s why turning down the FX return master broke the feedback loop.
On the screen shot Dick Posted you can see the “ON” button top left corner of the fader. On an analog mixer that would be one of the assignment buttons by the fader.
To use an analog mixer FX example using an outboard FX unit lets say the FX input is connected to aux/mix #6 output and the FX output is connected to the CH.16 input on the board, CH.16 is now the FX return and aux/mix #6 on every channel is the FX send.
You go across the channels and bring up the aux #6 knob on the channels you want some
reverb on bring up the CH.16 fader and you now have reverb in the mix from the channels
you have aux #6 turned up on.
Now if you went and turned up aux #6 on CH.16 you would create the same feedback loop
by sending the FX back into it self.
If you have stage monitors connected to aux/mixes 1 - 4 turning up those auxes would send the FX signal into the monitor mixes.
I’ve come to the suspicion that the QU-Pad and QU-16 layers must be different … there is no way I get any FX output with settings like the QU-Pad photo above.
What I said earlier is correct. The upper layer includes 9 Master faders for FX1 to Mix 9-10, the FX ‘Sends’ functioning as master faders for the FX.
To avoid feedback loop you only have to avoid bringing up the FX Returns in a bespoke FX, i.e., the FX1 Return when FX1 Upper Layer is selected, or in other Mix assigned to FX3 or FX4. As you select the FX, different Mixes or LF in the upper layer, those faders never move as you go from one selection to another.
And to hear your FX anywhere else you must have the FX returns up on the selected Mix or LR.
I’ve gotten a lot of help here and from other forums … so I’m going to try to give back something for the next ‘Rookie’ that comes along: step by step FX setup. This will take one mic input channel and send it to LR and one Mix with selected FX. For ease of discussion I will refer to UL (Upper Layer) and LL (Lower Level) fader banks.
The only thing I won’t cover is the Pre Fade and Assign buttons, as by default they are properly set to Post Fade and Assigned to all masters by default. You probably haven’t touched them and shouldn’t unless you have some specific need.
Hit your FX square button to the right of the LED screen under the ‘Home’ button. On the top of the display in five small squares you see FX1-FX4 and ‘Back panel.’
Select the small FX1 square in the display. Use either the default FX type that appears or do the following to change the type. The function key will let you chose an FX Type and matching library of presets. Choose one.
When the FX type’s graphic appears and while with ‘FX1’ still selected hit the ‘Back panel’ button on upper right of display.
On the left you will see a pane with a downward arrow centered. The text can display either ‘Unassigned,’ Insert, Mix>Return or Ch>Return. Select Mix>Return. (FWIW Ch>Return is like an insert in which FX engine can only be used on one channel but FX level can be controlled by another fader).
In the center of this display is a middle pane with title Input and another drop down menu. Select FX1. This is also on the QU-16 where you would assign FX3 and FX4 to one of the mixes.
Without changing your display, now hit the FX1 physical button on the lower right side of the mixer just to the right of the master fader.
Select LL with FX1 selected. Raise your fader on your connected mic input and give a ‘check, check.’ You will see that in the display the tiny meter on the right side of the ‘FX1’ shows activity. Your input channel is now connected to your chosen FX.
With UL selected while FX1 is still selected raise the ‘FX1 Send’ fader to unity. (Actually, as this is in effect a master fader, you can raise or lower ‘FX1 Send’ in any selected mix or the LR … but let’s get it ready!) MAKE SURE ‘FX1 Ret’ fader is all the way down when FX1 is selected to avoid a feedback loop!
For purposes of example, I will use Mix 4 as a monitor feed where I want the signal and FX delivered. The exact same procedure would apply to LR Main or any mix. Select Mix 4 and raise the Master Fader or the ‘Mix4 Master’ … same result as they are locked to one another while ‘Mix4’ is selected.
With LL selected while Mix 4 selected raise channel fader of your connected mic.
With UL selected while Mix 4 selected raise ‘FX1 Ret’ to taste. You will now have your FX. You should also note on the UL that you will have signal activity on both ‘FX1 Ret’ and ‘FX1 Send.’
I’m sure most here won’t need this … but ‘Rookies’ do come along.
The image in Mr Rees post shows the FX returns routed to the mix 1 output, not LR mains.
The first picture of the mixer surface in JimmyB’s post shows the correct fader positions to send the FX to mix 1, but since he says he still has no FX in the monitors the FX returns most likely are no assigned/turned on to mix 1.
Again personally I find all the assignment settings easier on the QU Pad APP than the mixer surface.
As to the mention about the custom layer difference between a QU mixer surface and the iPad. If you are referring to the actual custom layer you can build on the mixer surface that you can bring up by hitting both of the layer buttons at the same time that custom layer can be loaded into custom layer one on the iPad APP.
There is a somewhat hidden function in the QU Pad APP settings menu that when you check the box custom layer one on the APP will follow what has been set up on the mixer surface custom layer.
Normally the APP custom layers stay with the APP on the iPad it was set up on.
Mike C, all I can figure out … as I can’t get any FX returned to LR on any mix with those faders down as illustrated in the photos, is that the ‘FX Sends’ are going prefader to L-R and the Mixes.
Is this what you’ve been trying to explain to me?
And if so, then all I need do select Fx1 and FX2 respectively and change the Fader Send on the Upper Level to pre on those channels?
Regardless, it still seems a 6 of one, half-dozen of another proposition as all functions perfectly as I’ve outlined in the steps above.
Actually I see a draw back to setting up pre fade because any time I wanted to use one of the Mixes for FX3 or FX4 I’d have to be careful to go back and reset the pre fade to post fade … whereas with all post fade I’d never worry about that feedback loop.
The FX send master faders set the overall level of the signal going into the FX unit, those do need to be up.
The FX return faders set the level of the FX “mixing” back into the main LR or any of the other mixes if needed.
FX sends from the input channels are normally set to post fade so that level changes on the channel fader will track same with the level driving the FX so the FX mix wet to dry ratio stays the same.
Have you even set up an external FX unit on an analog mixer?
Do you know has any one messed with the FX input output patching menu for the back of the FX units in the mixer? In that menu it is possible re route where the FX gets it’s signal from and sends it’s output to.
You said: "Do you know has any one messed with the FX input output patching menu for the back of the FX units in the mixer? "
Did you read my steps above? Did you find any error in my instruction of using the FX input output patching menu? Have I said I’ve had any problem getting FX signal working properly with respect to the patching?
The only thing I brought up in my last post you didn’t bother to address: sending pre fade from the FX Auxes to the Main and other Mixes.
If it was patched incorrectly you would not get any FX no matter what you tried…
The FX auxes/mixes do not directly control what FX comes out of the LR mains. That is controlled by the FX returns, their levels and making sure they are assigned to ON for the LR mix.
Post a couple pictures of your FX routing screen or the FX screen on the ipad app.
Actually I see a draw back to setting up pre fade because any time I wanted to use one of the Mixes for FX3 or FX4 I’d have to be careful to go back and reset the pre fade to post fade … whereas with all post fade I’d never worry about that feedback loop.
The feedback look is only created if the mix feeding the FX is turned on/assigned on the same FX that it is feeding and if you turn up that FX return send on the mix that is feeding it.
My default reset has all the FX mix sends turned off on all of the FX returns.
FX 3 and 4 on a QU 16 have to be set and assigned a mix input send and a return channel.
I do get effects on the monitors… I just have one snag however.
After setting up the 1st Mix1/Voc1 with a bit of reverb, I muted Mix1_Master so that I could setup and listen to the Mix2/Voc2 and do the same. (See board complete setup below)
All is good however this is where the snag came in…
I Muted the Mix2/Voc2 Master and WHAT? I could hear just the processed Reverb effect of Voc2 IN Mix1… Not the voice signal, just the process signal.
I then Muted Mix1/Voc1 Master and again WHAT? I could hear just the processed Reverb effect of Voc1 in Mix2… Not the voice signal, just the processed signal.
I’m sure that I’m mission the tiniest piece of the puzzle, but I’m stumped STUMPED… UGG <<<
This board is so clean it just bugs me that the feedback loop or whatever is adding noise to a live show when there is so much going on. Stuff like this accumulates and suddenly things are feeding back and muddied.
Thank you so much for any incite or direction in advance… Will really be appreciated.
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Current Settings
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LL - LR -> (Ch1 = Voc1 Input) & (Ch2 = Voc2 Input)
UL - LR -> (FX1_Ret up to desired effect level)
LL - Mix1 → (CH1 = Voc1 up to desired level)
UL - Mix1 → (Mix1 Master = Up to Unity) & (FX1_Ret to desired effect level)
LL - Mix2 → (CH2 = Voc2 up to desired level)
UL - Mix2 → (Mix2 Master = Up to Unity) & (FX1_Ret to desired effect level)
LL - FX1 → (CH1/Voc1 & CH2/Voc_2 up to Unity) & (Post Fade)
UL - FX1 → FX1_Send → (Up to Unity) & (Post Fade)
djam, thanks for the kudos. I am pleased this helped you out.
I’m really a novice at this without deep understanding. I’ll give my best shot at an answer, but if wrong, hopefully someone else will step in.
To adjust (as I understand) the two different vocal mixes independently, I think you need to mute the channels on the lower level, not the mixes, if you have them sharing the same FX.
The only way I can see to separate them so that the FX send from one vocal mix doesn’t bleed into the other mix is to use separate FXs for each.
Not sure which unit you have, but if you only have the 2 dedicated FX busses, remember you an use some of your Mixes for the other 2 FX engines for a total of 4.
