Scene Filters should not change after changing mix configuration.
Currently making any change in the Mix Rack configuration (where you decide about the number of stereo / mono busses) changes recall filters for some parameters in all scenes to “allow”.
For scenes that have recall filters purely for surface illumination or fader layout only, or settings of a one channel only this is a big problem. With shows with dozens of scenes it is necessary to go through all of them and to adjust filters even if you add a matrix in the mixer configuration.
I think default filter for all new parameters appearing in the Scene Filter after changing the configuration of busses should default to BLOCK, not ALLOW.
I’m also of the opinion that the default value here should be BLOCK. so at least in all scenes that use a recall filter!
In my case, I have dozens of effect scenes in which I store complete effect settings (for single or multiple FX engines) that are recalled for different music moods and special songs.
As soon as I change the mix configuration, I have to check the recall filters in all these scenes and often reset them. That’s a lot of work every time.
After loading version 1.80, I had to do this again in all my shows, because a few new functions were added - and then the filters didn’t fit anymore.
In this case I can understand it, because here completely new features were added. But when simply adjusting the mix configuration (e.g. adding two aux sends) it’s really annoying to have to adjust the recall filters again. If you forget this in hectic situations, it can cause a lot of trouble when recalling a scene.
I got burned with this once again - this time when bringing my show file from C2500 to S5000.
My fader layers recalled nicely on the Bank 1 and Bank 3 leaving the middle bank blank. So I decided to put some strips in the middle bank. Then during the show I recalled a “guitar solo” scene which to my surprise cleared the layout of the middle bank.
There should be a way to avoid this. For now a painstaking going through all scenes and readjusting the filters is the only way to go.
Unfortunately, I have already had these experiences.
only that not the faderstrips disappeared, but other preamp settings were recalled!
that happened to me three times at different concerts, i don’t need that again.
since then i check the recall filters of my effect scenes almost before every gig!
i have reported this for a long time and hope that there will be a good solution for this problem soon.
I have submitted a ticket regarding this but they said this, even if considered, would not be on top the list of the things to do.
I’m admiring how this is done in Waves LV1 - recall scope stays the way it was set, regardless the changes in the mix configuration, like on Avid Venue desks.
That’s one reason why I’ve been thinking about an external solution for the effects for quite some time.
But then it’s an impractical solution and costs a lot of money again, then it’s added that this investment is not paid for by the customers. That’s why I haven’t implemented it yet.
So we still have no choice but to check the recall filters before every show start.
Nevertheless, thank you very much for opening a ticket.
This x1000.
I got bitten by this when I split a stereo channel into two monos. You’d expect both sides of the pair to keep the same settings until changed, right. No, the right side of the pair was now being recalled by EVERY scene change, including all the scenes I’d set up for changing the surface brightness etc - therefore I call this a bug rather than a lacking feature!
Brought my show to a bigger console, assigned some additional fader layouts. It’s show time. I fire my first “guitar solo” scene which brings guitar 2dB louder and to the center of panorama. New fader layouts disappear.
Connected DX168 to accommodate some additional input channels. That for some reason caused the channels using DX to set preamp settings to “allow” in scene filters.
Created an additional Matrix for a balcony in a church. The new Matrix is set to “Allow” in all my scenes, so first scene fired resets the Matrix.
Even experienced sound people can be new to the Qu digital stuff and how it works considering the nuances like filters and when they are active and when/how to set them.
Which preference of old users should win out?
I would tell AH that a more user friendly device that is more intuitive or at least documented a lot more thoroughly would be in their best interests saleswise. Perhaps some of these things which default should be set up globally during the initial sysgen so as to give each side their choice of how it would work when they use it. But they will say it is at the bottom of their list if they even consider it.
Steffen R,
I deliberately used this title and I chose the wording because I see it this way. Filters are meant to be used to allow certain elements to be recalled on a scene by scene basis, while blocking everything else, regardless of the mixer configuration. Allen heath themselves encourage using this, for example together with Soft Key “SEL, PAFL, MIX, SCENE” which can recall previously filtered scenes with fader layouts only. For a monitor engineer last minute guest musician that would require assigning an additional aux in the mixrack configuration would cause all those “layout only” scenes to completely reset the guest musician mix. Who would want that?
Would you be so kind to present at least one scenario where even the least advanced user would set filters in individual scenes and where she/he would expect some later changes in the mixrack configuration to be effectively reset upon recalling those previously stored scenes?
The logic that sits behind filters is to make a recall focused on selected things. Future changes in the mixer configuration are currently causing resetting those newly added items (fader banks in larger control surfaces, new buses, stereo/mono channels, dx extenders preamp) bringing their settings to their default state when recalling filtered scenes. If it isn’t a huge problem for the majority of users reaching for scene filters, then I would be clearly missing something. If I do, please explain what.
I would also like to stress that I am not suggesting any changes to scenes without filters.
Basic users can actually burn themselves as well, not knowing that a factory scene “Fader Layout” might actually reset some unwanted mix settings if any changes were made to the mix rack configuration beforehand. I can imagine a situation like this happening.
