Show vs Scene • Are LR EQ options locked?

Qu Qu General Discussions
1

I’m working with a friend that has never used a digital mixer and I am ying to get up to speed on the QU-7. I’m used to a scene having full access to change anything, but it seems that regardless of user or scene, the LR EQ settings stay the same. Would a separate Show file, saved to a thumb drive allow a change in EQ, either GEQ/FBA or PEQ, to stick for LR or other mixes?

I’m trying to triage what is currently a mess - tons of experience on other boards - trying to get up to speed on this one, so when I have direct access AND time, I can get to work.

Edit: And to clarify - when he showed me what he had done - I didn’t note any of the users having any of the Safes turned on - but it is one of the areas I need to double check, as what I was observing didn’t make sense to me. But, I am new to THIS digital mixer.

2

If you mean that recalling a scene does not change the main EQ settings that may be blocked or safed in the scene recall settings.

Or are you not able to make any changes to the main LR EQ settings?

3

We would make changes, but either they wouldn’t stick - OR - the changes were reflected in another scene, or login.

I am used to where a new scene is a blank slate - I can change whatever I want including any aspect of any output, be it main LR, or mixes, be it used for monitor, IEM, ETC.

4

There is a whole lot of filtering and ‘safes’ that can affect scene reloading.

These can be stored into scenes, global filters and safes.

If one of the filters or safes protects the LR processing, it will never be loaded from the scene into the mixer. A scene always stores everything (it is programmed to at least).

The firmware manual clearly identifies what is stored into a scene, and what is not (it will be generally stored into a show if not into the scene - but there are a couple of parameters that are not stored into either - but in the mixer).

There should be no reason why changes to the LR processing should not ‘stick’, assuming you are (a) making the change, (b) storing it into a scene and (c) reloading the scene - with the proviso that there are no filters or safes preventing the LR processing settings from being reloaded from the scene.

Dave

5

That makes sense to me. At this point, I will assume I am being thrown of by my own ignorance of the board AND the lack of understanding/knowledge of the friend seeking my help. I will have some focused solo time with the system the next couple of days to sort this and some other key issues out.

6

A new scene will start where the mixer is set at that time, if you wanted to start with a blank slate you would need to do a full mixer reset. Actually do a full reset may be a good idea if there has been lots of people “working” on the mixer and not knowing what they were getting into!

7

Thanks for the reply! A reset and blank slate would be my first choice. Unfortunately, there are two churches that use the system, so I don’t wan’t to muck up anything they think they have worked out. I need to be able to be in touch with their people, too, so I can understand what they do and don’t understand about this new system. The direction I’ve been given is that they want it very simple for operators - in essence just turn it on and move the appropriate faders - basically like an analog board and no one knows anything about any of the great options that can be tapped into, with a digital board. Sad for them, but not my call.

8

The first thing that I did after unboxing our new SQ desk was to create a FACTORY scene and then backup the entire desk to our PC.

The second thing I did was to keep everyone away from the new desk until I had it configured, and we had a starting point to work from. The configuration of our ‘default’ scene is then agreed by our ‘committee’ of three people.

When we try something ‘different’, I load our default scene, modify it and save it to one of my temporary scenes. We then trial that when I am on until we are happy, then make the change permanent in the default scene.

I then DOCUMENT the change and brief it out to all of the audio team. Documentation is, unfortunately, the last thing that most people think of…

By the sounds of it, you have one hand tied behind your back to start with!

The problem may be that people have ‘fiddled’ to start with, got the desk into somewhat if a state, and then saved that as a scene. You are now already on your back foot, because you do not know what people have fiddled with and accidentally saved.

You should be able to save a scene of your own, and slowly ‘unpick it’ to see what is going wrong and fix it - but only in your own scene.

Is there ANY existing documentation regarding how the other Churches have the desk configured for use?

If they ‘think’ that all they need to do is play with faders, I think they are being somewhat over simplistic! They need someone who knows how to get the best out of the desk…

I was having problems with vocal reverb at one point. I went to an audio show last year and saw/heard the latest offerings from A&H. I went back after the demo and asked the guys for some help with my issue and they were brilliant. A slight tweak to how I was (stupidly) using reverb and it works beautifully now.

Knowledge is power, and the suppliers’ want you to get the best out of their equipment - after all, it is a good selling point for them! Being a large, tech-savvy Church, we offer our services free to other Churches. Of course, if they come into our building for a chat, the first thing they see and hear is a very impressive A&H setup…

We have three drummers all using the same equipment - the audio guy has to adjust the setup for all three of them. Likewise we have four keyboard players using the same keyboard - guess what, four settings. I suppose you don’t HAVE to do this, but that is definitely not the correct attitude into getting the best sound from the available equipment.

It is not a bad way to proceed as you move from desk to desk. That is exactly what we did when we moved from our analogue desk to a digital desk. I initially configured the digital desk as per the analogue desk and trained people on the differences between the two. We were primarily concerned with ‘how’ to use the new User Interface to make a change to (say) a vocal EQ and how to use scenes. Everyone thought the default scene and strip libraries I had configured for our various instrumentalists and vocalists were absolutely brilliant - as it saved a ton of initial configuration work!

When we updated our digital desk to the A&H SQ7, I initially configured it the same way as the old desk (as far as I could) and then (once again) trained people on the differences.

Keep asking questions, it is the best way to learn.

Sorry for the long ‘ramble’!

By the way, if you are in the UK, I am in Worcester if you want a 1:1 chat.

Dave

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9

Thanks for the great reply. In short, sounds like you have a great team and process in place. I have been the lead on a team with a lot more need and variety week to week, so I would program the scene at home, then load it up week by week, depending on who was doing what, etc. That is my world.

In this instance one person has taken it upon themselves to replace the main of the PA, with lame speakers (relative to what they had) and a new digital mixer that they have no idea what it was designed to do. That was roughly two months ago. I’ve been hearing about the mess from my wife, that attends there. I reached out, but they said they were just “growing pains” and would get it sorted out. They lack the knowledge and experience to accomplish that, so have reached out to me to help them out. In truth, I think some fundamental issues are with the DSP of the new speakers, based on what I have heard, from my wife and from him, when I was there to listen - before I developed a plan of attack. I’m going in this afternoon with my tools to evaluate, then act. Several red flags have come up along the way, so I suspect: Speaker setup/DSP, improper gain structure overall, and some totally wacked EQ stemming from a guy that has no idea what he is doing. I had set up the previous system and they enjoyed the results for years. Not sure what precipitated the need for change, but it was an aging analog setup. I suspect if they had just moved to the Qu AND got training, that might have covered things well. As it is, they barely understand an analog setup and have jumped into the deep end, not understanding the pluses they now have, but now using the digital board with the most basic of analog understanding. I’m trying to help them put out the fire of a mess they have created. Beyond that, they have to decide if they want to understand what they have, so as to use it to it’s strengths.

Again - thanks for taking the time to provide some feedback - I do appreciate it. It balances out all the time I’m investing with the manual.

10

Hmm, it all sounds very familiar!

I got ‘dragged back’ into the A/V at our Church in very similar circumstances.

Basically, someone with very little knowledge (the expert) made some changes to the existing equipment that had been installed and made things worse. Not his fault, he is a very nice guy, but he was a bit out of his depth. It has all been replaced now :wink: as we are asking to do way more than was ever conceived 30 years ago…

I was just settling down to watch the Simpsons movie on TV when I had a phone call. The Worship Group for Sunday were at Church for a practice session - but no Audio person has been asked to attend! I just live down the road so within 10 minutes or so we are up and running with the first cut.

Good luck with your problem.

Dave

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11

I’ve found some what a little too often that people are sold a new mixer with the false pretense that it will magically fix all of their audio issues.

12

Yeah - in this instance, they had above average speaker/amp setup and a solid analog board and no issues, though been in place for a couple of decades. They moved to cheap speakers designed for portable events and a digital board that no one has the experience to understand. The previous speakers had a PEQ dialing in system EQ and it worked well. With less functional speakers and only 4 band PEQ on the outs - along with some problematic mics, it’s a handful as the new speakers are not near as clean as the previous setup. Can’t turn a sows ear into a silk purse . . .

13

Well, my Qu-5 pretty much magically fixed my audio at the Church. We were trying to get a Behringer X32 rack to work acceptable for about 2 weeks. I got to the point I chatted with the pastor about it. Can’t we please get a physical mixer again?

The new Qu was just released. Pastor bought the Qu-5 and an AB168. I had all FOH plus 5 Aux mixes set within 2 hours. I still had to set EQs, compression, etc per channel, but after the other mixer wasting my time like it had, I felt like it was actually winning a bit of a battle.

Once I figured out how to split my Aux mixes between Layer A (mix 1, 2) coming off the FOH and Layer B (mix 3, 4, 5/6) coming off a separate full mix for Livestream, that was winning a war.

And no, I do nothing basic fader only, never. I’m far too OCD for that. :grinning_face: