Hello
I have recently been asked by a band to provide 14 stereo mixes for IEM. I use an SQ-6.
I have an AR2412 and an AB168, so I can only provide a max of 9 stereo mixes and FoH LR from their outputs.
Would it be possible at all, by adding a 2nd SQLink and preferably an AR2412, to create enough mixes to help this band? Or is it the limitations of the max possible mixes the SQ-6 of 12, that won’t allow this?
Thanks
Mike
There are two possible limitations when dealing with outputs.
First, you have the physical XLR outputs to support your needs. Obviously you need enough physical outputs to support the number of connections you need to make. In order to have 14 stereo outputs, you will need 28 XLR outputs just for that purpose. You probably have more than that (Main L/R output, etc). You can certainly add more physical XLR outputs by connecting various digital stage boxes to the system. You’ll just need to understand the differences in the various digital protocols that A&H uses and make sure you select stage boxes that will work together. The SQ cannot support an unlimited number of stage boxes. So selecting which box to use can have widespread ramifications now and in the future should you need to expand the system even further.
Second, you need enough internal busses to support your needs. Having 100 XLR outputs won’t help if your console cannot create enough mixes. Unfortunately the SQ series of console has 12 assignable busses (which can be stereo or mono, but using mono busses does not increase the number of busses you can mix) plus a Main L/R stereo buss. This means it the console does not have enough stereo busses to support 14 unique monitor mixes.
That being said, A&H has the ME Personal Monitoring System and the SQ console supports the use of ME devices. The ME devices (the less capable ME-500 and the more capable ME-1) do not use up the internal console busses (EDIT - and they have their own outputs, so they don’t use any physical XLR outputs either). This means you can add as many ME devices as you need without worrying about the number of internal busses the SQ has free. Therefore you just need to add a some ME devices to achieve your goal of having 14 stereo monitor mixes. For example, if you only have 8 internal busses free for monitor use (because you are using some busses for groups, etc), then you will just need to add 6 ME devices to get to your needed 14 stereo monitor mixes.
The ME system will plug into an ME port or a SLink port. Keep this in mind if you are selecting digital stage boxes to increase the number of XLR inputs/outputs. A&H makes a couple digital stage boxes that also have an ME port built in, and it would make sense to use one of these boxes if you need to expand your XLR I/O. (However not every stage box has a ME port built in, so you’ll need to check carefully before purchasing).
Personally I would recommend using the GX-4816 simply because it uses the GigaAce connection and can therefore handle a lot more channels than the DX or older AB/AR boxes. With the GX4816, you can connect a ME system and still have the capacity to add two more DX boxes which can really help add a lot of I/O if needed.
Thank you!!! Stuff to consider. I do not want to invest too much (yet)… so I will dive into your suggestions and check which one will fullfil my (financial) needs and limitations.
Regards
Mike
Unfortunately, none of this stuff is cheap.
However if you have to ability (not limited by procedures, etc), I would recommend that you look at the used market. You can find ME-500 devices in the $350 range and ME-1 devices in the $450 range quite often - even cheaper if you can be patient and wait for a “good deal” to pop up. A GX4816 typically runs about $3000-3500 (which is a lot, but certainly well under the normal retail price).
I’ve bought lots of used A&H gear like this through the years (including but not limited to a GX4816 and a dozen or so ME devices) and never had a problem with a single device.
PS - the ME-1 devices are WELL worth the extra cost over the ME-500. Unless your band is really small (and clearly it isn’t if you need 14 monitors), a ME-500 is too limiting with only 16 mixable mono sources/channels (that are the same across all ME500 devices). The ME-1 supports 40 mono sources/channels and you can program each ME-1 differently on how they use/interact with those 40 sources.
PS - the ME system supports stereo sources, they just use two mono channels.
Allow me to supplement Brian’s valuable points by noting that you can also operate ME using your existing stage boxes, and, what’s more, you would have even 20 outputs available, rather than the 16 provided by a GX-4816 (on stage).
You are absolutely correct!
Even though it is clear as day in the OP, somehow I skimmed over the fact that he already had the AR and AB boxes. I thought he was having to add stage boxes to his existing system.
My take is different and not hardware related.
How much work does this band provide? It seems to me that it’s a lot of expense to provide what they ask for. My bands are quite happy for mono IEMS as i dont mix in stereo anyway (plus I use focus mode on the receivers to make the most of the hardware). Horses for courses I guess.
The advantages of stereo IEM over mono are many. Separation, lower volume, etc.
yeah, the internal bus structure of the console would be the limiting factor here.
Is this a one off event, or a band you’ll be working for regularly?
There’s kind of 2 main options you have. either get into some ME-1’s as Brian suggested (maybe still use some traditional wireless IEM’s for those that need mobility, and ME-1’s for stationary players) Or, The second option would be to rent a console package such as dLive, or Avantis, with the required I/O. Be sure you can pass on the rental fee to the band/promoter
We have an SQ-7 at the Church, and the first limit we would have hit was the number of XLR outputs. We stuck with mono foldbacks to limit the outputs required - and had one foldback output from the SQ7 for all of the vocalists (daisy-chaining multiple powered foldacks for them). Not ideal, but practical and achievable.
We can solve the I/O limitation (using a digital stage box) but then very quickly hit the internal mix bus limitation.
As a result we are slowly migrating mix bus/XLR outputs to ME-1’s as funds permit.
We added another ME-1 the other week, but promptly used the freed mix bus as a USB stream output to feed a laptop app for an AI language translation facility.
So I am largely echoing what people have already stated.
Dave
While the SQ only has 12 stereo busses, you can work around that by using 2 additional stereo FX sends as an IEM send (to get you to 14).
Just bypass whatever FX unit you’ve loaded and mix into it like you would any other send.
After that, you just need to hunt down enough outputs to feed all those IEM transmitters. Or use transmitters that have digital inputs - there are a few out there that have Dante.
Brian is right about using the ME-1 you can get a stereo mix from each ME-1 that the Band member can mix on his own. The ME-1 has 16 ‘channels’ but 40 inputs, and those inputs can be mixed together in whatever groups are needed by the performer.
With the SQ console, you get 12 busses. That’s 12 busses whether you use stereo busses or mono busses. It’s not 12 stereo or 24 mono busses like a lot of consoles. Therefore there isn’t really an advantage to using mono busses for monitor mixes on the SQ console itself. Certainly if the rest of your hardware (ie the wireless system or headphone amps) can support stereo monitor mixes, it would be wise to do so.
I agree. I don’t yet know how much work this band is going to give me. So I am combing through all possibilities. But I agree on the more pleasurable stereo mixes. A bit of panning on the drums and keyboards already make it from my pwn point of view easier on the ears.
Thanks everyone. Interesting information. Also the FX send idea is great but I still need more outputs. So one way or another, investment is needed … I made a quote to the band and see if they bite. Going for now with 5 ME-1’s. Thanks again everybody. Very very helpful!
