Being a complete novice
On our pa we need to keep the master fader on max to get a decent volume, not wanting to turn up our individual channel gains , as that makes mics to sensitive
We are connected to output 10 rear socket, adjusting the trim on main mix out seems to have no effect
Granted as a novice we may have setup wrong
But any instructions or tutorial assume we know basics lol
Any ideas would be great
There are quite a lot of places to adjust the gain on a mixer desk!
What you require is a decent video on how to set up the GAIN STRUCTURE for your mixer desk and external power amplifiers.
I will post a link to a video series that I use in my training sessions at our Church - but that will be a little bit later.
What do you mean when you say that your microphones are âtoo sensitiveâ?
Dave
Hi thanks for the reply
I meant, turning up the mics to high means there to much pickup from across the other side of the room, one of our mics is set to 39db preamp control , is that average ? Or we gone wrong somewhere?
I am âflying our audio deskâ today, so I will check for you.
We use Shure SM58 microphones for our vocalists - but they do get used and abused (so we have slightly different characteristics from when they were purchasedâŚ).
Dave
I have two vocalists on today. One has a head amplifier gain of +35 dB (she is the more powerful singer of the pair), and the other one at +37 dB.
Both of these are using Shure SM58 microphones with pop shields. The two microphones they are using are the âleastâ damaged of the four.
There is a bit of boost at some frequencies on both EQs.
The channel faders are at approximately -5 dB.
Our vocal group fader (we run the vocal microphones) through a vocal group) is at 0 dB.
What microphones are you using? What is their polar pattern and sensitivity to ârear actionâ? This is exactly what you donât want from a vocal microphone!
We use a gate on each channel. I tend to back off the channel compressor compared to other operators. But that is my preference.
Dave
My two vocalists were on top form today!
There is a very simple A&H document here for starters:
I hope this link works for you:
If not, look on YouTube for Attaway Audio and look for a video called âHow to Set Gain Structureâ.
This guyâs videos are worth watchingâŚ
I am not sure what âoutput trimâ you are referring to though. The MAIN L/R mix does not have an output trim control (as far as I can tell).
I suppose the next question to ask is: âwhat is the gain setting (volume control) as set on the main amplifiersâ?
If that is turned down too low, then you may have to crank up the main fader output. However, sometimes this is deliberately done to limit the maximum sound pressure level that people are exposed to should the master fader be pushed up too far.
Dave
My first thought when you say the L/R master has to be âon maxâ or the speakers are too low is the amplifier inputs need to be turned up.
Your mic gain levels arenât necessarily out of line, but it does depend on the mic, the room acoustics, and the proximity to potential feedback sources. I use Audix OM3 and OM5 vocal mics, and the channel gain is typically around +30-35.
If you havenât already, watch the video daver2 linked, itâs a pretty good starting point.
Ok let look at ours but atleast I am not going mad
Our faders generally left at unity zero mark
Think mics were the akg d series will check
But our master fader is at max
Will take a look and review what you sent , many thanks
There are a few things for you to look atâŚ
Bounce any ideas / questions you have off us!
It might also be worth looking to see if the L/R mix has a compressor that is limiting the signal level before it escapes from the desk to the amplifiers.
Dave
Hi appreciate the advice so far , I am slowly getting round this
Something threw me tho just looking at the visual meters , although they all stay in the green , the meter on the preamp for our wireless mic is always leaking in the red , before me trying more adjustments, am I right in saying that level indicator is what the receiver is pushing into the mixer itself and then the other peak mater indicators are what is going into the mix
If you look on the block diagram for the desk you should see that the main channel meter is taken off after the EQ and compressor.
But yes, it is possible that the radio microphone output is too high for the mixer input.
On our Sennheiser radio microphones, you can adjust the sensitivity of the microphones electronics to make them less âhotâ.
Also, each input has a âpadâ button and you can adjust the pre-amp gain.
Exactly what make and model of radio microphone have you got? I can look up the specifications.
I have a similar problem with guitarists that have pre-amplifiers built into their guitars. They sometimes adjust their âvolumeâ knobs too far either up or down. I have to compensate too much on the audio desk preamp gain. Either they are âblastingâ my input or the signal is so low that I am having to apply too much gain so that I end up amplifying a lot of noise. Neither is a good situation, so I have to go and âtwiddleâ their guitar knobs for them. Again, hit the âgoldilocksâ area. Not too much or too little gain, just the right amount.
Dave
Yes it does allow us to reduce the gain we using the following
Shure SLXD14UK85-K59 Wireless Lavalier Microphone System
Initially we did test it and reduced it , I guess finding middle ground is what we need to do but it was showing optimum
Perhaps lowering it at mixer end is what we need to do and raise gain further into the mixer staging
>>> Perhaps lowering it at mixer end is what we need to do and raise gain further into the mixer staging.
You got it!
Dave
Just a quick note:
I donât know which firmware is being used, and unfortunately, also the block diagrams are sometimes faulty or outdated.
In any case, since 1.6.0, you can select one of five source points for the meters in all mix channels, so also for the Main mix.
Worth noting for when we finally upgrade our firmwareto 1.6.x. We are not risking it still!
Dave
this is where your noise gate Comes into play. It can filter out the background noise but will pick up the vocalist.
Just to touch back on this, thanks for your help , we more or less have something working for sometimes now , our input was main problem using the Shure digital wireless was over driving the input even when we had it to nominal levels but we see how the stages work now
Thanks for your help , will look for a thread on gates now , this gave us quite a bit of trouble especially if your story telling lol and your pitch is going low etc
Will open new thread I assume for that if need be
Gating vocal mics can be a losing battle finding the threshold allowing getting the gate to open (all the time) when someone is singing yet close to block out background sound that.
IF you chose to try it use a longer release time and only a few db of gate attenuation.
I have fix quite a few âthe mic keeps cutting outâ problems by bypassing the gate or at the very most setting it up as I described.
Read my post on gates, short of editing my post, letâs just say donât gate vocal mics!
Maybe you should look at have someone who really knows that mixer, running sound, ect come in for a system check up and do some set up and training on the mixer.
Itâs been two months and your still having some issues that your audience / congregation is being exposed to.
As above, I only gate vocal microphones in exceptional circumstances.
I mainly gate instruments that are using microphones (e.g. flutes etc.).
Also, donât âoverdoâ things. Being too aggressive can be worse than not using something.
Dave