So I believe we have our inputs assigned to both FOH and monitors (monitor engineer said that they’re like a duplicated set of channels that go to our monitor aux channels). My understanding is that gain is shared and that we have independent trim for both monitors and FOH.
Monitor engineer customised MixPad so we can hit Routing, then Custom 3 on the top display (which shows all our aux mixes for IEMs) then Custom 1 on the bottom display that shows all the channels for that mix when you double-tap the mix you want.
Then if I double tap the Bass DI channel, for example, I see which aux mixes are getting Bass DI. Then if I press the Processing tab at the top of the screen, I see sections called “Socket Preamp” and “Trim” - in this section Gain is at 14 dB and Trim is at -24.
However, when I go to “Inputs” and find the Bass DI channel (which I believe should show as it pertains to the FOH mix?), then go to Processing again, Gain is still at 14 dB and Trim is -14.4.
This is where our FOH and monitor engineer seem to be having trouble with independence because sometimes things adjust only in FOH, and sometimes they affect our in-ears.
But based on that structure, does that support the idea that there are in fact separate trims, and if adjusting one also affects the other that’s a routing issue?
Apologies if I explained this poorly, I’m new to the dLive and doing my best trying to get my head around it!
Are you duplicating your sources into two unique channels? For example, is there a kick drum channel for FOH use (let say channel 1) and a second kick drum channel for IEMs (let’s say channel 65). I believe you are, and the rest of my comment will assume this is how your system is set up.
If so, there is only one analog preamp for the kick drum. Both channels (1 & 65) will show this preamp value and both channels can change it. If it’s changed in one channel, it will obviously change it for the other channel too. In your example, the value of 14db represents the preamp gain level. If you are in channel 1’s preamps section and change the gain from 14db to 10db, the system also changes the preamp gain for channel 65 to reflect the 10db level because there is only one physical preamp that is shared between both channels.
Additionally each channel will also have a digital trim adjustment which happens to also be found in the “preamp” section of the channel processing GUI. This digital trim adjustment will only affect the channel it’s being changed for. In your example, you said the Trim was set at -24 for one of the channels (and -14.4db for the other). If you change the trim from -24db to -15 on one channel, the other channel will still reflect a -14.4db level because it wasn’t affected by the other channe’s trim adjustment). I suspect your console and Mixpad apps are set up to show different set of channels which is why the trim numbers don’t match. I think your BassDI channel on the console is showing the FOH channel (lets say channel 10) and the Mixpad app is showing the BassDI channel for IEM (lets say channel 74). This is why the trim level is different in your example depending on what device you are looking at.
Long story short, changing the preamp level will affect both channels (FOH & IEM) while changing the trim level will only affect one channel, but not the other.
Your engineers need to learn to how to set a preamp gain initially. This is usually done during sound check and is 100% based on the level that the source is providing (which is the same for both channels). Once that preamp gain is set, NO ONE should touch it again during the event. If either the FOH engineer or monitor engineer need to change the channel gain level of that source for some reason, they should be using the digital trim option and not the preamp gain control.
Furthermore, there should also be a process where all of this gain is reset regularly because when you are setting gain in two different places, it is easy to get the overall gain “out of whack” over time. This has happened in your BassDI channel that you used in your example. The BassDI preamp gain is boosted to +14db, yet the digital trim level on one channel is set to -24db and -14.4 on the other channel. This means the system is boosting the preamp gain just to turn it around and immediately cut the gain level at the next step in the audio path via the digital trim level. It makes no sense to boost and then turn around and immediately cut. The trim setting in both channels should be set to “0” and the source preamp gain turned down at least 14db to “reset” that source’s gain structure.
Preamp gain is a property of the input socket. So it always affects any channel that is patched from that socket.
Trim is a property of the mixer channel. So it should be independent between channels.
Once the preamp gains are set to a reasonable level for noise and headroom, nobody should be messing with them anymore, just the trims.
If indeed, only the trims are being changed, and a monitor channel is affecting FOH, then yes, it sounds like something is routed somewhere it is not supposed to be.
I think your answer is above. Since we use ME for most of our musician’s we have separate ‘duplicate’ channels dedicated to the ME system(in your case monitors). Our people know not to mess with gain unless a different instrument (bass guitar for example varies widely) shows up, then we may but generally use the trim. In the duplicate (ME) channels we adjust EQ and dynamics to suite the players without affecting the house. We also make sure not to make mute groups that include the duplicates so if you mute a group or channel you only mute the house. We like to leave all the ME stuff live for our players. I will add another trick we have used with duplicate channels. Since we use a Matrix to send our house mix out (campus, livestream or record) and the kick or bass for example might be too heavy for these streams, we might make a third kick or bass channel and invert the phase. Now you can add the inverted channel to the Matrix which in effect takes out that low freq energy that may overpower little TV speakers. I find that more effective than just hi pass filter or EQ tweaks.
I’m still finding that DLive can do almost anything and you no doubt will.
This made a lot of sense and was super helpful, thank you so much! That helped me clarify on MixPad where to see the channels that are for the monitors and adjust them confidently. I really appreciate your help!
