What's the right way to route FX to FOH and monitors?

Qu Qu General Discussions
1

My FX returns are set to -5. To add fx to an input channel for the LR mix, I select the FX mix and adjust the channel fader to suit my ears.

What is the proper way to apply fx to that input channel in the monitor mix?

2

Go to the FX return channel, select the mix button for the monitor you want to send FX to and then bring up the send level on the FX return.

Think of the FX return channel just like any other input channel you want to send to a monitor mix.

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3

To add to that, I’d like to phrase it for you a bit differently:
For example, you’ve configured your FX1 for LR exactly to your liking and are happy with it.
Now, simply switch from the LR mix to the respective monitor mix and adjust the FX1 return there so that the FX1 signal is also correct in this monitor mix.

But as I’ve mentioned elsewhere: Keep in mind that monitoring should be more about controlling the musician’s instrument, such as their voice, and not about creating a feeling of comfort.
(This also means that a singer’s monitor signal shouldn’t be sent after the compressor!)
The less FX someone hears, the more they can concentrate on the essentials, such as intonation and dynamics.
So never try to convince a musican (singer) that their monitor mix sounds better with FX applied.
Instead, try to dissuade them, using the reasoning above. :wink:

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4

Thanks guys. That was really helpful.

The scenario is a High School jazz band with trumpet, fugelhorn and sax solos. The band director had requested a mic and monitor set up for the students to come out of the band, do their solos but hear themselves in a monitor that had some verb in it.

I had accomplished putting FX in the monitors two different ways and wasn’t sure which was correct. Below are the two ways I did it. I think you guys are saying technique #2 is the right way. The problem with that is that it isn’t dynamic in the sense that I can’t kill the FX in the monitor mix and still be sending something to the monitor.

For FOH:

  1. Select LR mix
  2. Raise input channel to taste
  3. Select FX mix
  4. Raise input channel to taste

FX Technique #1 (similar to FOH):

  1. Select the monitor mix
  2. Add the input channel until it is the right volume
  3. Add the FX return to the monitor mix (this raises the volume of the monitor)
  4. Select Monitor mix
  5. Lower the input channel so overall volume is correct

FX Technique #2 (This works only because the input channel was sent to FX for the FOH):

  1. Select the monitor mix
  2. Add FX return until monitor mix is right volume

So is technique #2 the correct way to do it? TIA

5

Unfortunately, you still don’t seem to have quite grasped the basic principle. (
Or perhaps I’m just not seeing what you mean.

You can always deactivate an FX in the monitor mix by closing its FX Return fader (or removing its Assign, which is less clear).

If adding some reverb to the monitor mix increases its volume to the point where you have to reduce the dry input channel, then you’re doing something wrong - but I’m afraid I don’t know anymore what it could be.

The fact that an input has to be sent to an FX engine is the basis for an FX to function at all.

Also note: FX Returns in every mix also offer the option to select Pre or Post (FX Return LR).
By default, all FX returns in the monitor mixes are set to Pre.
I hope you haven’t changed this, because otherwise, there are of course even more dependencies, some of which might be useful, but will only confuse you further.

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6

When I mute the FX return or move it’s fader to -infinity in the monitor mix using Technique #2, the monitor output goes to zero.

7

No. When you Mute a FX Return - whether in the LR or a Monitor mix - only that FX is muted, but it’s muted everywhere - in all mixes.

But if you close the FX Return fader in a Monitor mix, only that FX is “muted” there.

In both cases, the rest of the Monitor mix remains unaffected and unmuted.

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8

If adding FX/Reverb to a monitor mix and it’s making the monitor level get noticeably louder I’m going to say that is way too much FX in the monitor…..or there is another routing issue we’re not aware of.

At this point I think it would be best to bring in someone who knows Allen Heath digital mixers inside and out and certainly the QU for a system check up and some one on one training. Finding the right person can be tough but would be worth it at this point, there is only some much trouble shooting that can be done on a message board.

9

I think we’re close. The unit is new. The input channel’s MIX sends are PRE. The FX Sends are POST as per the manual. Each FX Return is unassigned from it own mix. It’s possible I’m adding too much FX so I can confirm it’s affect. So let’s take the monitor output level increase off the table.

Is this the recommended procedure for a wet monitor?

  1. Add FX Return to LR Mix
  2. Add FX Return to the monitor mix
  3. Add the input channel to the FX mix to taste in LR mix
  4. Adjust FX Return in monitor mix to taste

When I want to change to a dry monitor but leave LR:

  1. Remove the RX Return from the monitor causing it to go silent
  2. Add the input channel to the monitor mix

Muting the FX return is not a good way to transition to a dry monitor because that would make the LR mix go dry as well.

This look right? TIA

10

Something like that.

Here 3. should actually come before 2.

And why 2. here?
Did you previously remove the dry signal and only have reverb in the monitor?

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11

Exactly. That’s what I am trying to flush out. The correct procedure is to send the dry input channel to the monitor mix the same as is done to LR mix. Send the dry input to the FX processor. Send the FX return to each output mix (LR and monitor).

  1. Add input channel to LR mix
  2. Add input channel to monitor mix
  3. Add FX Return to LR Mix
  4. Add the input channel to the FX mix to taste in LR mix
  5. Add FX Return to the monitor mix
  6. Adjust FX Return in monitor mix to taste

Operationally, the level of the input channel in the FX should not be adjusted after it’s initial level in step 4. Rather, adjustment to the amount of FX should be done to the FX Return in the LR mix and/or the FX Return in the monitor mix. You all were probably saying that and I didn’t get it until I laid it out. Operationally we always adjust the input channel in the FX mix to taste but that was before having FX in more than just LR. Whew. Thanks for your patience. Event is tomorrow.

12

Yes, that’s one way to put it.

However, that’s not a hard and fast rule.
If you change the FX send, the FX level for all FX returns changes simultaneously, which can be intentional.
And there are many situations where the FX level isn’t static but often needs to be adjusted musically.
But that’s probably not the case for you right now.

Although (just to confuse you a bit again), you can also have the FX return of the monitor channel follow the FX return of the LR channel via the option post fader.

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13

One way to look at adding FX to any mix is this:

This is jumping in at the point you have all your dry audio from FOH and monitors. Assume your FX send is being fed signal from what you want, the FX is producing the effect (reverb, delay, etc.) FX return is active.

Focus on the FX return. Treat this as if it were any other input, like a vocal mic, drum, etc. Have this FX return fader down fully and with the desired dry going through properly, start increasing the FX return fader. When the proper amount of FX is coming out blended in with the dry, this is what you’re wanting to achieve.

From there on, FX return fader is any other input. Pull it down as needed, push it up for more, down for less. Even muting if desired.

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14

Thank you @DeltaWhiskeyBravo14 . Having a mental model of how it works (signal flow) what I’ve been trying to develop. I get it now so I can teach it. Thanks.

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15

You’re welcome. I’m working out my own FX send return stuff, so it’s just a big learning experiment.

Have fun with it always.

And happy holidays all.