I know that audio doesn’t actually pass through a DCA vs a group but it would be really useful for DCAs to have meters so you can see at a glance an overview of what’s going on.
At the moment I use groups because of the lack of meters on DCAs but that comes with it’s own set of limitations.
Hugh
+1
That would be quite handy.
ddff
+1 Would be practical
+1 very obvious this should be part of a digital console!
+1
+1, agree!
+1 should be easy to implement given you can already pafl the DCA
+1! Very useful to have this option.
+1
Must admit I thought this years ago when I first got into iLive, and I understand all the arguments against but as said you can PFL the DCA so seems a simple step to display the level on a meter.
I am still looking for a global P48 ON button.
Agreed!
Would be very useful …
+1
That would be really helpful.
There is no way to show accurate metering on a DCA which has more than 1 member.
Without summing the audio, you can either sum/average the members’ meter values, which takes no account of phase cancellation, or you can show the meter for the loudest channel, which gives no indication of the combined levels for the faders being controlled.
So either of these is a lie and would also mean the meter is doing a different thing for DCA’s than it would be for other channels, removing any meaningful comparison.
Showing whether any member channel has signal at all, or is peaking is a slightly different discussion.
I’m going to go ahead and put in my +1, with additional comments:
Until I started writing this post, I had not wished for this feature, but then I realized that I am about to start rehearsals for a big musical with DCA mixing. And, in that case I can see a BIG benefit for DCA meters.
In my opinion it is OK for a DCA meter to show something different than other meters. A DCA is not the same thing as another channel. Other channels already routinely use different meter pickoff points: for inputs it is usually some version of pre-fade and for busses it is usually some sort of post-fade.
If the feature does get implemented, then I think that the sum/average of individual meters or highest of individual meters are both reasonable choices. But in my opinion it is far more important that the channel fader values get taken into account, but probably not the DCA fader value. If a post-fade meter pickoff exists, use that (alas, while that exists for buses, it doesn’t seem to exist for inputs). Or if it is easier, use the fader values to create a weighted sum of pre-fade meters.
As far as the phase issue is concerned, maybe I haven’t thought hard enough about it, but I would venture to guess that few signals will be so massively out of phase that the sum of their meters would be egregiously wrong. Sure, the possibility exists, like out-of-phase dual mono. But even double mics on a drum shouldn’t be too far off once they get past the polarity invert switch. The meter would still be useful in most cases. Which brings me to my final point:
Just because a DCA meter is not calculated with the same precision as a channel meter, does not mean that it is a “lie.” Choose instead to call it a “useful approximation” and put a short disclaimer in the manual.
May I chime in again on this?
We had some discussions about it in the past. So sombody deceided to start the discussion again.
Why?
https://forums.allen-heath.com/search?q=DCA%20metering%20%23dlive%3Adlive-feature-suggestions
@Keith
Would it be possible (and does it make sense?) to merge these discussions to one thread?
It doesn’t look like it was started again but rather an older thread (2016, birth of dLive) was grabbed to continue the discussion instead of the long detailed thread.
I understand all the details underlying the math problem including the summing and phase cancellation issues, but I’m with msteel.
Most of what I do is Theatre mixing on DCA’s and not having a relative indication that something is on the DCA is maddening when you are running 12-16 DCA’s.
Post channel fader, weighted average of those above a minimum level (eg, -30dB?)
Hi all!
Yes I agree that the metering for DCA’s should be an optional feature.
Average level of all member channels as an example.
This is highly useful especially when jumping from bigger surface to smaller and using a Show Layer with lots of DCA’s and DCA spills.
Thank you!
Not again.
Average level needs summing on all DCA.
We already discussed this…
The conclusion was: the loudest signal and clip detection will provide a benefit without the need for summing busses for every DCA.