I’m not suggesting it makes any sense from a technical perspective.
However, the under the hood architecture of studio based systems is quite different from the live scene however.
Studio systems have a more flexible DSP approach, usually PC based while live has a dedicated DSP approach.
I’m not sure it is an apples with apples comparison.
Toby
quote:
Originally posted by millstHowever, the under the hood architecture of studio based systems is quite different from the live scene however.
Studio systems have a more flexible DSP approach, usually PC based while live has a dedicated DSP approach.
I’m not sure it is an apples with apples comparison.
Toby
I’m not sure that’s really true anymore
HDX is entirely FPGA-DSP-based (whereas HD Native is host based) Digico SD# is all FPGA software-dsp based, Bluefin 2 (calrec) is also FGPA based, with the SC48 is somewhere between. Pro2 is FPGA based as well.
While certainly there’s instruction sets for each application, the differences are far harder to identify.
Yamaha is the only manufacturer with a true inflexible DSP-based approach still on their flagship (CL). Venue is also still hardware DSP based.
Side note: Does anyone have any honest info on the iLive/GLD DSP? I don’t believe it is FPGA based, but its gotta be partly software based since we can reconfigure it so easily.
iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College
Congratulations guys.
This has to be the most interesting thread for ages!
My head was spinning just reading what you guys have writen.
I had to sit down for a minute.
This is what forums are for!
I notice that none of the A&H guys have dared to chip in…but I bet they
Are watching.
Jim
R72 & IDR32
MacBook pro
An RIAA curve available on an Analog input pair.
A fifth floating band (ala UREi) on the channel EQ.
Designer plugins (Celmo, DAS, and emulations e.g. Pultec, Lang etc.)
best,
john
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
quote:
Originally posted by millstI really dislike what I hear coming out of many of the other desks on the market compared to the iLive. The desks I dislike seem to be running at 96k or higher. The iLive runs at 48k.
The Yamaha M7CL and CL series run at either 44.1k or 48k and it is available as a setting on each console. I personally have only ever observed it set to 48k. The PM5D can run at 44.1k, 48k, 88.2k, or 96k. There are lots of reasons why a mixer can sound bad, from poor mic preamps to bad processing algorithms. Personally, I would suspect one of these long before I would ever suspect something inherent to the clockrate itself.
I definitely agree with the request for faster boot up and operation and a lower noise floor. The waiting time for the surface or editor to connect is ridiculous! I have yet to buy the iPad app because am afraid to find out it has the same long wait time and then be out the money. I would also like buttons that did not feel so flimsy.
As far as software goes, I think it would be nice to be able to save the layer you are in on each bank in scenes and to allow more special characters (!-,: etc.) in scene and show names.
The biggest thing I would not only want, but expect, is better technical documentation about the hardware and software. In fact, I would like that about the current generation as well.
~Jeff
I wish it run at 96 too.
Bob Katz wrote about that in his mastering book (upsampling for better processing treatment). If I remember correctly, 96 is ok but 192 introduce other problems.
anyway, digico can do both so A&H must offer the option too.
Even if it was a commercial argue, if a client wish to record the show at 96, you could just say “ok let’s do it” or explain him what’s your point on aliasing.
It would be great it group could be send into group and FX like an input (as protools with mixbus).
Thomas
T112 IDR32 Dante=>MBP PTHD9
quote:
Originally posted by tk2kSide note: Does anyone have any honest info on the iLive/GLD DSP? I don’t believe it is FPGA based, but its gotta be partly software based since we can reconfigure it so easily.
The DSP in fixed racks (and probably modular racks also) are a lot of Motorola/Freescale DSP56k processors, and I think an FPGA or two to handle the internal routing. Next time my iDR48 is open I can take another look. I’ve always admired the design!
Though it seems people have taken it that way, I’m not particularly interested in wether the iLive system does 96k og not. 48 is fine by me. This is certainly not where I meet the limitations of the system. My wishes would be:
A better compressor. The current one is extremely flexible of course. Sidechain, int SC, Multiple algorithms, release time in dB/s, blend. All I really want is a more simple compressor, that sounds more “right”. The Vi desks have the most simple controls, and the best sounding compressor on digital desks. The iLive’s compressor is one of the reasons I find many new techs have a hard time “getting there” quickly, when they first meet the system. Simplify the controls, improve the algorithm(s). Peak and RMS is more than enough, if the basic sound is good! And give us a proper release parameter, milliseconds like everyone else.
The Limiter is now useless, and completely opposite of the compressor. No control at all. It is way too slow, obvious, and at it’s best it can be used to squash a DJ from smashing everything red. I really don’t understand it’s purpose.
Better feeling build quality of surfaces. They are simply too expensive for the kind of feel you get from a T surface or R72. Even the GLD is already much better, while not very good. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the build quality as such, but the look and feel is really not impressive. If you wanna play with the big boys, this should be addressed, though some of course will think that sounds ridiculous.
Lower noise floor, I really agree.
MUCH better startup and loading times.
an even better de-esser. Maybe the ability to apply broadband reduction, or a Q function.
More FX slots, and the ability to return outboard FX to FX returns instead of input channels.
Keep being totally awesome at an affordable price!! [
]
[8D]
some ideas:
sidechain for dynamics in inputs AND busses, with flexible routing from all inputs and all busses
a ducking-function in busses, with sidechain and with adjustable max. depression.
possibility to insert channels, when a new channel must inserted in an existing channel-list (inclusive preamp-gain!).
not long ago, I must insert an additional tom-channel - and move all 30 channels behind them, per copy and paste preamp, channel processing and mixes = 90 actions = what a stupid job, and not one mistake is allowed!
ok, in livesituations I can simply insert a channel from anywhere to the new position on the surface. that´s easy. but for coming events, I need a correct channel-list, I´m a german
possibility for quick safe channel-functions in more of one scenes (for example when another bassplayer will be integrated in a musical-band)
a parametric-EQ section with 6 bands.
the lowest an the highest band can used as locut/highcut/bell/shelving-filter. this EQ is for outputs - and for inputs(!) and give us a maximum of flexibility.
why? all desks in this world have a 4-band input-EQ, whitch is in 99% functionally adequate. but, is this really necessary forever? sometimes, I need an additional filter for example for feedack-reducing in critical live-situations, or a locut, 4 band-EQ and a highcut in a channel.
maybe, the hardware-EQ buttons can have the normally 4-band EQ for better overview, and the additional filters can be used per touchscreen.
I think this can be an innovation in mixerdesign - and an unique selling point!
automatic-mixer function to integrate the iLive in fixed installations, or for better handle double microfone-installations at lectern-situations (witch is mostly uneffective, but sometimes the customer needs it for different reasons)
two screens for jobs with two technicans in the same time or for better overview.
screen with overview of all dynamic-LEVELS (gates, compressor, limiter/deesser)
don´t forget: the screen must have a good visibility also in open-air requirements.
like “vilddyr”: a better control for the limiter and deesser.
like “vilddyr”: a better quality for the surface, please!
dynamic-EQ as alternative compressor-function in input-channels.
Dante network inclusive gaincontrol. i think this is really the future.
gaincompensation for FOH + MON systems.
a much faster boot-time
much faster scene-safe and -recall (for complete scenes)
more FX-blocks, and with a distortion-FX! - sometimes the iLive sounds too clean
samplerate:
48kHz is IMHO good enough for live-situations. I have no problems with it. the latency-time in the existing iLive is very good!
but: why not, with 96kHz we get a latencytime like analogue desks?
maybe you can make a switch between 48k and 96k?
oh, this is a long list… sorry.
and now: I hope you can understand my english
full carbon surface!!![ ][ ][ ]
digico and all the others are still way to heavy.
i already love it now moving the console around,
in case there are not as many people coming as expected-go where the crowd is - besides single channel delay sone of the main advantages of
light weight console (rember the days with the monster muco 20 external effects e.t.c.)
cheers
dave
allways latest firm and software
iLive-144/t-80/idr-10 /idr-48/dante/pl-6/eyepad 1/belkin router/
quote:
Originally posted by woutertquote:
Originally posted by StixQuote:Originally posted by millstWhile this white paper doesn’t specifically talk about converter latency it does misspell some myths about sample rates and audio timing.
I’m just doing some drawing… it’s not so hard to prove that what he writes in his paper is wrong…
Actually, I can get pretty mad when I read such nonsense from people who present themselves as specialists.
Wouter
IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND</font id=“size1”></font id=“navy”>
I would gladly read Woutert’s papers, white or otherwise or have a look at any drawing on this subject (or any other), had he published any…Until then I will continue to educate myself with such “white” papers as those published by the likes of Dan Lavry and not let my temper get the better of me when confronted with a different reality, opinion or point of view.
Peace…
RayS
R-72/iDR32/iPS10
A quick thought on this topic would be the following about the surface.
Some means to adjust the led brightness of the channel strip independant of the brightness of the virtual write-on strip above the fader. Under low lighting conditions, once you dim the leds on the channel strip so they are not blinding you, the colors of the virtual strips are gone.
Possibly an additional display same type as the virtual write-on strip above the channel strip which displays the channel name of the selected channel in a large font.
tspad1960
quote:
Originally posted by tspad1960
- Possibly an additional display same type as the virtual write-on strip above the channel strip which displays the channel name of the selected channel in a large font.
+1 very practical. Think ETC Expression 3 style
iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College
I for myself would like to see:
Editor should stay on and if an drop out occurs it should sync automaticly if reconnected. Like the Yamaha…
full Waves SG Integration
Fader calibration
different lights on the channes strips and meters - the lights on the channel srtips are looking like they are sitting too far behind.
Better built quality of the encoder, knobs -surface over all.
more flexible network structure - its way too easy to get an connection error when having more then just 1 mixrack and 1 surface.
ability for 2 option cards in the mixrack or even 1 in the surface. So i think it would need to speed up ACE to 1Gbps or so…
Dynamic EQ and Multiband Compressor for each channel - not ony via an FX Rack.
I would like to see an auto-gain mode that is switchable for early-show (soundcheck or initial show start). The behavior I would like to see from this mode is primarily to assist in proper gain staging. If the system detects overloading of the preamps, I would like for the system to be able to lower the gain on the preamp and compensate all signals derived from that preamp by the same db increment to keep relative levels the same. As I manually change the relative levels the system conforms the automation of all derived gains to the new manual levels.
A selectable auto-off mode might also be useful after the system detects no overloads for a set period of time the auto gain disables automatically or under manual control.
iDr48/T-112/MADI/Dante
dburris, that’s an excellent idea.
Using computers for what they do best. great thinking.
Anything routable to anywhere would be nice. Output of a group routed to the input of a channel or another group or ??
Duncan Whitcombe
@Dnxmirrorsounds
Mirror Sounds & metrochurch
Perth, Australia
T112, iDR48x2
www.mirrorsounds.com.au
www.metrochurch.org.au
I would like the ability to choose which mix bus is the default selection. For example, a monitor engineer might want the “Money” mix to be the default, rather than the L&R or L,R,C bus.
Have fun,
Jeff
+1
quote:
Originally posted by vilddyr+1
Anyone else think its funny how similar the Avid S3L is to a lot of the features mentioned here for iLive 2?
iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
Austin Federa, Lawrence University
This particular feature i think is pretty much standard. Its even on the LS9.